Howard or Tolkien, Which of them Had The Greatest Impact On Modern Fantasy ?

[KGeo777]

Amazon combines the categories too I notice.
The old swordsman without a shirt is really buried in the shelves.

 

[Bick]

LOTR is not focused on a sword-carrying character.

I do agree with you... but one could counter that its about the Return of the King, Aragorn, in a manner indelibly linked to the Anduril, the sword that was remade.

 

[KGeo777]

I do agree with you... but one could counter that its about the Return of the King, Aragorn, in a manner indelibly linked to the Anduril, the sword that was remade.

I thought of that, but he is such a background character with the Hobbits taking center stage. Everyone talks about the ring and Bilbo and Frodo!
Funny though-in those old muscle man Italian films, Hercules was sometimes with a dwarf or midget sidekick.

 

[BigBadBob141]

This is a bit of a chalk and cheese situation , they both have an equal impact but in different areas, Tolkein for the classic epic fantasy which usually drags on for three volumes or more, of which there are so many now days (not that LOTR itself does). While Howard is more of your short but heavily character driven stories such as Elric or Fafhrd and Gray Mouser for example.

 

[paranoid marvin]

I do agree with you... but one could counter that its about the Return of the King, Aragorn, in a manner indelibly linked to the Anduril, the sword that was remade.

I understand what you're saying, but Tolkein's heroes win through virtue of strength in character rather than strength in arms. Sauron is expecting a Conan-like warrior to come marching to his gates to defeat his enemies. not 3 (relatively) weak characters who are (virtually) undefended and unarmed.

A question - if Conan had the Ring of Power, would he have used it?

 

[Vince W]

No. Conan was repulsed by magic. He would have used it for wine and meat at the first inn he came to.

 

[BAYLOR]

I understand what you're saying, but Tolkein's heroes win through virtue of strength in character rather than strength in arms. Sauron is expecting a Conan-like warrior to come marching to his gates to defeat his enemies. not 3 (relatively) weak characters who are (virtually) undefended and unarmed.

A question - if Conan had the Ring of Power, would he have used it?

Given Conan's experience with wizards and magic , it's very unlikely.

 

[paranoid marvin]

So Conan has the chance to crush his enemies, see them driven before him, and hear the lamentation of their women, and he turns it down for a beer and a packet of crisps?

 

[Vince W]

No, Conan would never have sensed any magic in The One Ring, or if he had, he would never touch it. To him it would be just another piece of treasure and like all treasure that came into his hands, he would spend it as he saw fit. Also, the power of the One Ring would have limited to no effect on Conan because of his barbaric breeding.

Conan's method of crushing his enemies is to put a yard of steel into their guts.

 

[BAYLOR]

So Conan has the chance to crush his enemies, see them driven before him, and hear the lamentation of their women, and he turns it down for a beer and a packet of crisps?

Magic is not Conans game.

But, if we talking Kane the Mystic Swordsman . He would love the Ring and I think the Ring would not be able ot over or manipulate him . In fact Kane ( who is Immortal ) could not only subvert the Ring to his will But , he could also enslave Sauron as well.

 

[P.J. Greystoke]

People seem to be forgetting about the original... C.S. Lewis.

 

[oberon55]

I don't know if you can say this is from Howard's influence or not but the current Grimdark protagonist sure is closer to what Conan was than any of Tolkien's characters.

Conan was a actually a pretty amoral character when you look at it. In 'Pool of the Black One' Conan is rescued and taken aboard a pirate ship. From the second he steps onboard he is planning on killing the captain and then taking his ship and woman. When they finally get on shore the captain wanders off into the woods and Conan follows finally getting his chance to kill him.

I can definitely see one of George R. R. Martin's characters acting like this but I have a hard time imagining Gandalf or Aragorn behaving in such a manner.

So as a very early example of the grey antihero I would say Conan's spirit lives on today.

 

[BAYLOR]

I don't know if you can say this is from Howard's influence or not but the current Grimdark protagonist sure is closer to what Conan was than any of Tolkien's characters.

Conan was a actually a pretty amoral character when you look at it. In 'Pool of the Black One' Conan is rescued and taken aboard a pirate ship. From the second he steps onboard he is planning on killing the captain and then taking his ship and woman. When they finally get on shore the captain wanders off into the woods and Conan follows finally getting his chance to kill him.

I can definitely see one of George R. R. Martin's characters acting like this but I have a hard time imagining Gandalf or Aragorn behaving in such a manner.

So as a very early example of the grey antihero I would say Conan's spirit lives on today.

You might want to check out The Kane the Mystic Swordsman series by Karl Edward Wagner . A 5 book dark heroic fantasy series. The first book in the series is Bloodstone. Its quite good.

 

[BAYLOR]

People seem to be forgetting about the original... C.S. Lewis.

Lewis was great writer as well.

 

[tinkerdan]

Once again I read these when I was pretty young-15 or 16 years old.
Howard was much easier to read and I could get through his books faster--however I think Tolkien for all the difficulty in getting through them has had a large impact.
And, once again, I've never had much interest in revisiting or rereading either author.

Added: As far as Lewis--
There are some things in his writing that I've enjoyed, however his Perelandra, Out of the Silent Planet, and That Hideous Strength were so dry that they put me off from reading the Narnia books.

 

[BAYLOR]

Once again I read these when I was pretty young-15 or 16 years old.
Howard was much easier to read and I could get through his books faster--however I think Tolkien for all the difficulty in getting through them has had a large impact.
And, once again, I've never had much interest in revisiting or rereading either author.

Added: As far as Lewis--
There are some things in his writing that I've enjoyed, however his Perelandra, Out of the Silent Planet, and That Hideous Strength were so dry that they put me off from reading the Narnia books.

In the case of Tolkien , I may revisit him at some point. Ive read Howards stories oof times since and still fined then enjoyable.

I read The Narnia series a few years ago and thought it excellent , but have no real desire to ever rereads it . out if the Out of the Silent Planet and thought it okay but did bother with rest of the trilogy.

 

[Staggerlee]

It is an interesting question but the answer is actually slightly odd I suspect, Tolkien much talked about, but how many actually have read it? It is a pretty dire read I found and when I was a kid I loved Conan and so forth from R E Howard so for me I suspect a lot more read the easier works like conan but quote the more complex like tolkien.

 

[BAYLOR]

It is an interesting question but the answer is actually slightly odd I suspect, Tolkien much talked about, but how many actually have read it? It is a pretty dire read I found and when I was a kid I loved Conan and so forth from R E Howard so for me I suspect a lot more read the easier works like conan but quote the more complex like tolkien.

Agreed.

 

[Staggerlee]

Thanks Baylor, another odd thing i find with Howard vs Tolkien vs Lewis for example is that, Tolkien and Lewis both were pushing pretty standard agendas trying to influence the masses with their under current of good vs evil / white hat vs black hat / religion and so forth.

Where as Howard was just writing a story about a guy with a big swords stumbling from one woman to another and killing everything that crossed his path, and yet Howard of the three I discovered much later was a pretty offensive guy in terms of his world view and politics.

And this was long before the band wagon hitched up against his peer H P Lovecraft, so he must have been rather outspoken on his views just never on paper.

 

[Capricorn42]

@hitmouse :

Tolkein is clearly more complex, and has had a more widespread and deeper influence, though it should be noted that many of the lower-end modern fantasies combine Tolkeinesque imagery and conceits with Conan-type action and morality.

Dungeons and Dragons role playing, for instance, is a mashup of ideas from both writers. Game of Thrones as well, I suppose. There are many more.