You Wake Up and Find Yourself back In The 11th Century

[Vertigo]

I found the story a bit clumsy in places but mostly good (that might be a little harsh; it gets 4.05 on Goodreads). The medieval setting is very gritty and thoroughly de-romanticised and largely set around the arrival of the Plague. The author is American and I thought she had a better understanding of medieval Britain than of 'modern' Britain! On the whole a pretty good book, though not exceptional. However it is an SFMasterworks book. Also there are three other books and one short (90 odd pages) all in the same setting that I've not read yet. I believe the second one - To Say Nothing of the Dog (Victorian I think) - is also in the SFMasterworks.

 

[Mirannan]

My thoughts on this may well be typical. Were I sent back to the Middle Ages, I might last a week - if I was lucky - even if I wasn't burned as a witch or robbed or...

The reason is that I need four, maybe five, drugs to keep my arrythmia, blood clotting and hypertension problems under control. None of which, of course, were available in the 11th century.

 

[JoanDrake]

Most of the plot points of S.M. Stirling's whole series "Islands in the Sea of Time" is based on how helpless most (but not all) moderns are when taken back some thousands of years and he has a whole town. Eric Flint's WVA town taken to 1633 Germany, however, has no problem, but they seem to have unending supplies of ammunition, probably from the same elves supplying most commando groups in WWII movies.

 

[Mirannan]

Most of the plot points of S.M. Stirling's whole series "Islands in the Sea of Time" is based on how helpless most (but not all) moderns are when taken back some thousands of years and he has a whole town. Eric Flint's WVA town taken to 1633 Germany, however, has no problem, but they seem to have unending supplies of ammunition, probably from the same elves supplying most commando groups in WWII movies.

There is a throwaway mention of a cache of primers and cartridge cases, and tools for refilling said cases, somewhere in the series. And guncotton isn't actually all that difficult to make, although some failures in figuring out the precise conditions would be inevitable.

 

[Gramm838]

As I work in elf 'n safety, I'd be there stopping them building all the great cathedrals and other buildings as it's too unsafe - so all the workers would think I was a saint and I could live a life of luxury based on that.

LOL

 

[chrispenycate]

There is a throwaway mention of a cache of primers and cartridge cases, and tools for refilling said cases, somewhere in the series. And guncotton isn't actually all that difficult to make, although some failures in figuring out the precise conditions would be inevitable.

Actually, if you add the Grantville Gazette, there is lots about reloading cartridges - I cite the short 'Curio and Relic', which is largely about that. They've got more gun nuts on that site…

So, could you please dump me after the Norman invasion? I'm better on French based languages than Germanics. I'd try to get into a band of tinkers, who will always be worthwhile linguists, as villages at a day's travel will speak dialects which are essentially different languages and I can tink with the best of them.

Don't have long to learn, though; without medication, how long can I expect to last?

 

[paranoid marvin]

Oppression of the masses ; 1% of the population owning 99% of the wealth; people starving to death whilst others gorge; a penal system that simply doesn't work; holy wars and jihads. There are times when I wake up and it feels like I'm living in the 11th Century!

 

[Mirannan]

Oppression of the masses ; 1% of the population owning 99% of the wealth; people starving to death whilst others gorge; a penal system that simply doesn't work; holy wars and jihads. There are times when I wake up and it feels like I'm living in the 11th Century!

How are your teeth?

 

[paranoid marvin]

How are your teeth?

True. But arguably they would have been in better shape thanks to not having a high sugar diet. I do prefer having anaesthetic though!

 

[BAYLOR]

True. But arguably they would have been in better shape thanks to not having a high sugar diet. I do prefer having anaesthetic though!

In the 11 century even with the absence of the kind sugar laden treats that we have now, they still must have had poor dental health

 

[Aquilonian]

Venusian Broon's idea of pretending to be shipwrecked certainly offers the best chance of survival. There are various historical examples of such mysterious arrivals, eg the Green Children of Woolpit, and the woman washed up on the coast of Japan in some sort of round container that sounds like a modern life raft.

Ditch the mobile phone for sure. And thanks to our "nanny state", we British can't even carry decent knives any more- how insane would that seem to the 11th century? Almost all the knowledge and even practical skills possessed by any modern individual would be utterly useless, even if the language was learned quickly. For example, even if knowing the formula for gunpowder gained you royal favour, it would be little use if you couldn't also cast a decent cannon that wouldn't blow up. I reckon archery and fire making would be the most useful skills- you could live off hunting in the forests which then covered most of England. If you wanted to integrate into society, then for men blacksmithing would be about the most useful skill, as techniques and equipment don't seem to have changed that much. For women, midwifery- you'd achieve massive improvements on contemporary survival rates just by washing your hands and boiling your scissors- but to retain your Dark Ages credibility you'd need to recite some special prayers while so doing- let them ascribe your powers to a saint rather than to some eccentric habit like washing.

 

[Vertigo]

That's a good point actually our normal modern basic standards of hygiene (washing, sterilising etc.) when applied to the medicine of the time and suitably attributed to a saint (probably best to pick one and consistently pray to and give thanks to them) would probably achieve almost miraculous results in their eyes.

Another might applying modern horticultural practices farming.

 

[Vertigo]

A quick revive of this thread. I had an idea last night!

The only advantage you would have in medieval times would be your knowledge of modern technology and science. Not all of us have a great deal of that and even if we do the absence of a technology base makes most of that information useless. But here's an idea that could be achieved without much high technology: electricity.

They already had magnetite in medieval times so they were familiar with the 'curious natural phenomenon' of magnetism (ie. nothing devilish there it was seen as natural). What wasn't discovered until around 1600 was that iron could be magnetised by hammering it. So that could be a very useful skill. However, given magnets, a crude but perfectly functional dynamo could easily be created using only the technology available at that time; their metal workers were fully capable of making wire. And that would constitute a seriously revolutionary bit of physics in medieval times.

So if you could achieve this (probably best done under the guardianship of a monastery) you really would be able to give yourself and edge (and seriously change history at the same time).

 

[Michael Colton]

I assume I would end up considered a homeless wretch gone mad, not including the amount of diseases that would ravage my modern body.

 

[Extollager]

My thoughts on this may well be typical. Were I sent back to the Middle Ages, I might last a week - if I was lucky - even if I wasn't burned as a witch

Not much chance of that, popular stereotypes about the Middle Ages notwithstanding. Your chances of being convicted of witchcraft and hanged for it would be greater in the 1600s.

I've often thought how I would like to teach a college history course devoted to exposing popular errors and propaganda about our supposedly benighted ancestors (e.g. 9 million witches executed during the "Burning Time," the flat earth myth, the ancients' supposed ignorance of the smallness of the earth, etc.).


Who burned the witches? - Salon.com

Amazon.com: Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians (9780275959043): Jeffrey Burton Russell, David Noble: Books

Questions:

Out of 4,000 witch trials during 1550-1750 as heard by the Spanish Inquisition, how many death sentences were there?

Eleven

How many convictions for witchcraft in Portugal, 1536-1821?

One

Source: Steven T. Katz, Cornell University, in The New York Review of Books 13 August 1992.

Yet these early modern trials occurred during the height of the witch fear, in the early modern period, after the Middle Ages.

 

[Michael Colton]

Those courses do exist - just saying. The folks who wrote those books typically have day jobs as professors. I once took a wonderful graduate seminar on religion and superstition in the Middle Ages. It was quite enlightening.

 

[Extollager]

....Or the myth about medieval theologians spending their time debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...

Angels on the heads on pins

Or Luther was the root of the Nazis' extermination of the Jews...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0570048001/?tag=brite-21

The one I'm wondering about at the moment is the claim that the migratory patterns of sharks were (to this day!) changed when they began to follow slave ships (the Middle Passage) and feasting off bodies thrown overboard.

I could well believe that sharks followed the slave ships, as they would follow other ships that discarded edible waste of various sorts. But what comparative study was done at the time to establish what their route was and that it changed during the slave trade? And that they still follow this route -- what, because of some species memory?

I'm an English teacher, not a historian, but historical questions come up quite often in the interpretation of texts written earlier than the past 30 years or so. One runs up against "facts" that students have picked up from popular culture and from public school teachers who picked up their idea from the same source. These become involved when, e.g., in a Shakespeare course it's time for The Merchant of Venice (Jewish people), Othello (black persons), and Macbeth (witches). Professors often introduce pet distortions of their own, e.g. in a Shakespeare course, when it's time for Twelfth Night and anachronistic ideas about "gender" etc. get trotted out.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

We are descended from the people who survived plagues etc.
So you may be less susceptible than you think.

you can do arithmetic without a board and stones. Possibly you can even do it with board and stones.
You can write the Roman alphabet (stick to capitals!!).
So even though communication is very hard till you pick up more 11th C. English you can prove you are Educated.
You might know some Latin (I certainly know a little, more than any 11th C English). This also would suggest you are educated. It's the universal language of the Educated then.
You could claim to be from Normandy, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Little Britain (Brittany), rest of the land of Franks, Cornwall or far off in England as any of those places most will not speak the "English" you are now encountering.
You seriously want to get to an Abbey and meet Abbot or Abbess etc.

 

[BAYLOR]

We are descended from the people who survived plagues etc.
So you may be less susceptible than you think.

you can do arithmetic without a board and stones. Possibly you can even do it with board and stones.
You can write the Roman alphabet (stick to capitals!!).
So even though communication is very hard till you pick up more 11th C. English you can prove you are Educated.
You might know some Latin (I certainly know a little, more than any 11th C English). This also would suggest you are educated. It's the universal language of the Educated then.
You could claim to be from Normandy, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Little Britain (Brittany), rest of the land of Franks, Cornwall or far off in England as any of those places most will not speak the "English" you are now encountering.
You seriously want to get to an Abbey and meet Abbot or Abbess etc.

You could claim to be from Normandy or any of those parts would probably work until someone from those parts spotted you for an outsider.

 

[paranoid marvin]

You could claim to be from Normandy or any of those parts would probably work until someone from those parts spotted you for an outsider.

Any time from 1066 onwards, that probably wouldn't be long - and in the meantime you probably wouldn't be welcomed by the locals either!