Future Warfare

Considering how easily the Geneva Conventions are currently ignored without consequence, it is fairly easy to imagine a future without them being particularly relevant.
 
Not to resurrect a dead thread, but I am going to resurrect a dead thread...

Future combat is a very interesting, very complex subject. Right from the outset, it must be affirmed that no two militaries are going to do it quite the same. So, for any competing theories, there is a good chance that one military may use one theory while another use the other. It all depends on their doctrine and culture.

So, to address the points raised;

Infantry? Yeah, infantry are indespensible. As others have noted, if you want to do anything to a valuable resource such as a planet, asteroid, space station, or ship other than blow the bejesus out of it, you need someone to take and secure it. I partially disagree with the others in that I don't anticipate humans being replaced by robots, but not so much because of their vulnerabilities. The bigger issue is cost. I anticipate an autonomous soldier robot, using current dollars, would cost somewhere in the in the tens of millions of dollars per soldier. If a squad of these gets blown up with an artillery barrage (around $1000 per shell, so let's say $15,000 for a decent barrage), this will cost the host military something like $120,000,000. That is a significant economic defeat for loosing a squad. To put it bluntly, human grunts are cheap, so they will continue to be used. There simply isn't a cheaper way to get boots on the ground than volunteer or conscripted soldiers. Cloning of some form may be used to keep the numbers strong, and drones may augment their abilities, but autonomous robots are just too expensive to be used as grunts.

Bullets or lasers? Yes. For infantry, lasers have the advantage of being cheaper/shot, spot on accurate, and nearly instantaneous, but they also do less damage per hit and are incapable of suppressing the enemy. So, I suspect that conscripts may be equipped with these (training is "you point, you shoot, it hits what you point at. When it stops burning holes in sh*t, open this hatch and stick a new battery in it. Any questions? Good. Disappear, scumbag!") or designated marksmen with a pretty big laser to evaporate someone's head entire.

For ground and air vehicles, and advantages of the laser more or less disappear, except as a defense weapon for shooting down missiles and rockets (perhaps dispersing unwanted infantry as well). I expect these to use similar technology as the present. For spacecraft, though, the ranges do give lasers a bit of an advantage. That said, I see them being more long range standoff weapons rather than primary engagement weapons, unless someone straps a dedicated fusion reactor to their lasers (not that one of the factions in my WiP does exactly this...). Then again, I expect engagements between ships to be relatively close simply because of the difficulty in targeting at great range. For the record, I am not saying close enough that ramming another ship could ever realistically happen, but I expect battles waged at ranges measured in km, rather than au.

Planetary invasion? Depends on the military. As with invading anything else, one must first establish a forward base, which means getting troops from a ship to the ground without them getting all blown up and corpseified on the way down. There are dozens of ways to do this. Drop pods (the air burst type, not the ground impacting type) could work, but a bunch of decoys will have to be dropped as well. Shuttles seem plausible, but they would need some way around the air defenses. In either case, the troops will likely be dropped in the middle of nowhere at first with the vehicles they need to get to the actual objective. Once a forward base is established, bring in the shuttles, portable orbital elevators, or whatever other means of mass orbit-surface transit you use to land troops, armor, and artillery on the surface. It would probably take an army roughly the size and equipment level of the entire US military to take and hold a developed planet, maybe the size of one branch of the US military to take and hold an underdeveloped planet, and then colonies would vary dspending on their size and population.

This last point illustrates perhaps the biggest shift which will likely happen in such a setting. The size of the military will need to increase exponentially to secure a single system, much less several. This is where I see cloning and AIs coming into play. An AI at present capabilities could hypothetically replace all human control of, say, active and passive defenses on a spacecraft, excepting 1-2 humans to monitor it for errors and misidentifications. Replacing humans in such roles will cut down on the size of the military, but it will still likely have over a billion persons per system. The sheer size and infrastructure for such a force is staggering, and it is entirely possible that there will simply not be enough humans to go around. At least, naturally born humans. Industrial scale cloning, however, may be able to alleviate this burden of recruitment, but that opens another can of worms in the area of medical ethics and clone rights.

Shields? I expect magnetic shields to protect from radiation and the like, but not likely anything to stop lasers, much less projectiles and missiles. I expect active defenses like laser turrets and micromissiles for the latter two, and armor for the former (if there were adequate resources, coating a layer of essentially beefed up solar panels with artifical diamonds to refract the beam into a bunch of different directions to ease absorbing would effectively render lasers useless, though exponentially increasing the cost of making the ship). That said, if the magnetic shield is projected to any good distance (say, 0.5 km), it will probably collect a good bit of interesting objects, and these could at least deflect a projectile a couple degrees or detonate a warhead. Call it a garbage shield, but it could work...

Someone also mentioned space fighters and stealth. I suspect both are not only possible, but likely. On the former, it is simple economics. A modern aircraft carrier costs almost $13 billion to build and $2.5 million a day to operate. If you loose 10 $18 million space fighters and their crew to, say, blow up its engines and PD turrets so you can capture it, you have a major victory in terms of intel and captured resources. You are still in the positive if you loose 100. You would have to loose about 725 to net a negative economically, and the intel and captured resources could well make up that difference. So, there is certainly a case to be made for space fighters...

Regarding stealth, people often don't realize that stealth isn't a technology. It is an art, specifically of making one harder to detect, to which science and technology is applied. Stealth is as old as warfare; the Bible even mentions it in Joshua during the ambush victory of Ai. The tech changes, but the idea remains the same. So, applied in space, we currently can detect the heat signatures of spacecraft engines at interplanetary distances. So, someone comes up with a cold ion drive, so this cannot be detected, and a way to harness the excess cabin heat into a power source. No more heat signature. After this, the other side adjusts its technology to detect, say, the blocking of the background radiation by the ship. The first side will then adjust by using optical projections or releasing its own radiation. As I said, stealth is the art of disguising oneself, and detection is the art of defeating the stealth. These arts will continue as long as there is warfare.

Just my 2 cents/pence worth...
 
As others have noted, if you want to do anything to a valuable resource such as a planet, asteroid, space station, or ship other than blow the bejesus out of it, you need someone to take and secure it. I partially disagree with the others in that I don't anticipate humans being replaced by robots, but not so much because of their vulnerabilities. The bigger issue is cost.
You should consider the cost of life support and propulsion to move heavy soldiers through space, then compare that to the cost of the current drone market. "Robots" don't have to look or move like people to do their jobs.

Yes. For infantry, lasers have the advantage of being cheaper/shot, spot on accurate, and nearly instantaneous, but they also do less damage per hit and are incapable of suppressing the enemy.
Suppressive fire is a controversial and somewhat old fashioned concept. Several elite forces no longer practice it. The relative cost and damage of lasers vs bullets really is going to come down to advances in laser output and batteries. At some point, a weapon system will be able to store more destructive potential in batteries than gun powder and lead.

For spacecraft, though, the ranges do give lasers a bit of an advantage. That said, I see them being more long range standoff weapons rather than primary engagement weapons, unless someone straps a dedicated fusion reactor to their lasers (not that one of the factions in my WiP does exactly this...).
Long ranges are actually a disadvantage to lasers, because you can't make a self guiding laser, but you can make a self guiding slug. And bullets don't have to contend with air drag or gravity in space, so they have an enormous effective range that a laser lacks due to the inability to hold the beam steady on a moving object a light second or more away.

As with invading anything else, one must first establish a forward base, which means getting troops from a ship to the ground without them getting all blown up and corpseified on the way down.
I think that one of the advances in a modern military will be doing away with bases, because you have other supply and communication options with an orbiting spaceship. Individual assault units can be much more independent when they can receive orders and supplies directly without an in-field middle man. And that's assuming they would need any supplies or instructions.

The size of the military will need to increase exponentially to secure a single system, much less several.
Monitoring the population with cheap, ubiquitous and hidden surveillance is both much cheaper and more effective than having 1 billion cloned soldiers standing on street corners.

artifical diamonds to refract the beam into a bunch of different directions to ease absorbing would effectively render lasers useless, though exponentially increasing the cost of making the ship
I don't think lab diamond chips are expensive at all, but is there some reason you'd want to use crushed stone chips for a mirror when other substances are much lighter and easier to replace? How are solar panels going to function encrusted with reflectors?

You would have to loose about 725 to net a negative economically, and the intel and captured resources could well make up that difference.
Modern fighters don't cost $13 million. A "cheap" F/A-18E is $48 million, an F-35A is $85 million. "Space fighters" would be even more relatively expensive because they have to have all the shielding, life support, engines, etc of a larger ship, yet have no real advantage over a drone or guided missile. Large ships are more efficient for many tasks because they get more useful internal volume from much less shielding, self defense, etc.

I think it much more likely that smaller ship units would be shuttles, capable of moving quickly when empty but being useful for hauling loads and planetfall.


After this, the other side adjusts its technology to detect, say, the blocking of the background radiation by the ship.
No ship size object is going to block enough starts or background radiation to make itself detectable at any real distance. Closer in, active search radar become difficult to deal with because the output and effective range can be so high in space. The easiest way to hide will continue to be staying well away and getting lost in the enormity of space.
 
How far in the future, and how fast is the tech advance, and are there any obstacles to tech advancement we haven't seen yet?

Because I think at least part of the future of conflict is a race to the bottom in terms of the size of units - and their individual price.

Bear in mind that there is a mode of combat that uses unit numbers in the trillions, each of which may be hard to see in the best of optical microscopes. So we have an existence proof; of course, I refer to biological warfare. Swarms of locusts give us a similar proof for small, though at least macroscopic, units. Ditto wasps.

Given these existence proofs, I predict one possibility; swarms of thousands to trillions of units, each packing a lethal sting. To use a rather nasty recent example, imagine a swarm of robo-wasps each of whose stings deliver Novichok. Or a swarm of other units that do nothing more than dismantle people from the inside, and of course the host's immune system is impotent because it's never seen them before and in any case none of the immune system's weapons work - because the invader isn't biological at all.

Assasinsects and high-AI (group mind, of course) plagueswarms are a rather nasty prediction, but I don't think they are an unreasonable one.
 
Given these existence proofs, I predict one possibility; swarms of thousands to trillions of units, each packing a lethal sting.
The main problems with any swarm type weapon, bacterial or larger, are targeting and control. If you aren't interested in making a doomsday weapon, self replicating death machines have too high a probability of programming replication errors to be trusted. And if you have something more sophisticated, you have the problem of controlling millions of independent units without having millions of individual control channels - which means you have to either give the units some sort of autonomy or put them in cellular networks that have vulnerabilities like more sophisticated organisms do.

My short term prediction is that infantry will be replaced by small hoverable modular drone devices that act in clusters and are controlled that way remotely. Working in concert they could occupy physical space the way a soldier can, but can lose individual elements without trauma, and would be able to flow through small apertures, like an octopus. Nothing to specifically shoot at, easy to replace elements or cannibalize from other clusters. They could even be recharged remotely through focused microwaves.
 
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Let me clarify a few points and interact with some of your ideas.

You should consider the cost of life support and propulsion to move heavy soldiers through space, then compare that to the cost of the current drone market. "Robots" don't have to look or move like people to do their jobs.

I didn't say "androids", but rather "robot soldiers". They most certainly do not need to be androids to any extent, but they do need to be capable of neutralizing defenses, adapting to changing situations, and holding territory against counteroffensives. This would require highly advanced AI, the ability to carry a substantial weapon and adequate ammunition, the ability to locomote on the ground, and battery life measured at least in days, if not months. No matter what appearance this takes, it will be expensive, and likely at least the size of R2D2. So, if one wants to compare a drone to it, it would be more like a Predator drone, which costs around $4 million, with a much more long lasting power source and extremely advanced AI. That is why I gave the price estimate I did. In contrast, a volunteer or conscript is (presumably) raised by a family or some kind of civilian system, which means the military is not paying for the cost of raising the soldier. So, in initial costs, the soldier is clearly preferable to the robot. And, regarding ongoing costs, it really all depends on cost of supplies vs. cost of energy and maintenance. That said, I strongly doubt that the ongoing expenses for human supporting supplies would overwhelm the initial cost of the robot, much less maintenance costs and energy costs. If one is talking about state farmed clones, the advantage is reduced, but even with the state raising them from birth, I still am not sure the initial cost could be overcome.

All that said, if a faction were morally opposed to loss of human life, then such robots are where they would turn to. But, barring that, I just don't see the numbers adding up in favor of robots replacing humans. Augmenting a fighting force, quite possibly, but not replacing them entirely.

Suppressive fire is a controversial and somewhat old fashioned concept. Several elite forces no longer practice it. The relative cost and damage of lasers vs bullets really is going to come down to advances in laser output and batteries. At some point, a weapon system will be able to store more destructive potential in batteries than gun powder and lead.

Perhaps for elite forces, but for the most part, if an elite force is engaging in a firefight where suppressive fire is needed, something is wrong from the outset. Regardless, we aren't talking about elite forces; we are talking about regular foot soldiers, and at least according to my sources (4 tours between Iraq and Afghanistan, two in the 82nd, two in the 101st as an infantryman) suppressing fire is still standard doctrine. The idea is to have enough lead going downrange from one fireteam that the enemy keeps their heads down while another fireteam moves to a position where they can force them back further or pick them off. The problem with a laser for suppressing fire is that one cannot see or hear the shots going by, unless a colored laser is used in bursts sustained for sizable fractions of a second, and that will give away the position of the shooter.

And, regarding destructive power, I don't doubt that you are right. The problem is that the extra power is irrelevant after it gets to the point where you punch a hole through someone. The relevant part is how they do their damage. A bullet does damage by imparting kenetic energy to soft tissues which tear and burst, while a laser bores a hole and leaves some burns around the hole. This latter wound is far less dangerous than the bullet wound, unless one gets to laser calibers matching dessert plates, which would likely be unwieldy by a soldier.

All that said, in some settings, the advantages of the laser would outweigh the disadvantages, especially where accuracy and ease of use is preferable to damage per shot. So, marginally trained conscripts and marksmen would benefit most. Even still, I would expect that a fireteam would contain both laser and projectile weapons, to maximize the advantages of the fireteam.

Long ranges are actually a disadvantage to lasers, because you can't make a self guiding laser, but you can make a self guiding slug. And bullets don't have to contend with air drag or gravity in space, so they have an enormous effective range that a laser lacks due to the inability to hold the beam steady on a moving object a light second or more away.

Good points, but the advantage of the laser is that it arrives at the same time as the warning to the enemy ship. Suppose the two ships in question were 10 light seconds away, and a rail cannon could fire at 1/4 light speed (which would be a massive engineering feat in and of itself). Ship 1 fires the slug, and 10 seconds later, Ship 2 detects the shot. It now has 30 seconds to engage its maneuvering thrusters to move out of the way, and/or ready a laser PDW turret to destroy the slug, or at minimum melt it so it cannot self-guide, and/or hit it with its own railgun shot, and/or whatever other defensive measures are taken by Ship 2. Regardless of the specific defenses, there are 30 seconds to react. For a laser, Ship 1 fires, and Ship 2 is hit at the same time as it knows Ship 1 is firing. There is no reaction time available. That is why I say, at long ranges, lasers have the advantage. At ranges less than a light second, perhaps up to one or two light seconds, the advantages of the laser are negated (6 seconds is probably adequate time to prepare defenses, and 3 seconds might be), and the destructive potential of the slug is probably preferable.

I think that one of the advances in a modern military will be doing away with bases, because you have other supply and communication options with an orbiting spaceship. Individual assault units can be much more independent when they can receive orders and supplies directly without an in-field middle man. And that's assuming they would need any supplies or instructions.

With all due respect, I think you may misunderstand the purpose of a forward base in a planetary invasion. Anything that falls from the sky has a good likelihood of being intercepted by air defenses. The initial units deployed will likely take heavy losses, even if you EMPed the area first. The FOB, then, is less about supplies and logistics as it is about not having your troops shot out of the sky en masse. The first units take the losses for the sake of taking down a part of the air defense grid, probably coupled with orbital strikes on emplacements as they reveal themselves, to give a window for a force adequate to take the planet to land before non-stationary defenses (aircraft, armor, etc.) can be brought in. But, any time a force drops into hostile territory, heavy losses should be expected.

Unless you mean people will not be interested in planets, in which case, the discussion of planetary invasion changes to colony invasion, but the premise is the same.

Monitoring the population with cheap, ubiquitous and hidden surveillance is both much cheaper and more effective than having 1 billion cloned soldiers standing on street corners.

Of course it would be. But what it cannot do is respond to uprisings in real time. Soldiers are needed for that, and uprisings will be common at first.

I don't think lab diamond chips are expensive at all, but is there some reason you'd want to use crushed stone chips for a mirror when other substances are much lighter and easier to replace? How are solar panels going to function encrusted with reflectors?

Coating a space fleet in them, however, would add up, and the vessels will likely be expensive enough as is. I don't think I was clear enough, though, about what I was suggesting. There are vastly cheeper ways to reflect a laser, but they will get burned in the process, and another hit in the same spot will likely burn through. My proposal here is not to deflect it, but to diffuse and absorb it. It must be something that can withstand extensive heat, and be clear and able to diffuse light. Hence, diamonds.

I am out of time at the moment, so I will address the other points in a bit.
 
Modern fighters don't cost $13 million. A "cheap" F/A-18E is $48 million, an F-35A is $85 million. "Space fighters" would be even more relatively expensive because they have to have all the shielding, life support, engines, etc of a larger ship, yet have no real advantage over a drone or guided missile. Large ships are more efficient for many tasks because they get more useful internal volume from much less shielding, self defense, etc.

That is the cost of an F 16, which is older, but widely available. Even using the F 35 cost, though, (which is the most expensive fighter ever created) you are still looking at 153 before the costs even out. And, of course, the costs described are for comparison, not actual numbers. For the other affiliated costs, they also scale. Yes, both the fighter and a larger ship need life support, but a fighter needs it for 1-2 people, while the larger ship needs it for thousands. For shielding, it all depends on what sort of shielding is used. If you are thinking of a projected shield, it won't need to be projected as far, as it is a smaller vessel, which means less power needed. If you are talking about a physical shield, the thickness doesn't scale, but the cost does to an extent due to reduced surface area. And again, the logic behind the fighter is that it is so significantly cheaper per unit, that throwing some of them away is cost effective. For that matter, the cost could be reduced further by having the pilot wear part of the radiation shielding, and selectively shielding certain parts (fuel, avionics, etc.) rather than the entire fighter.

I think it much more likely that smaller ship units would be shuttles, capable of moving quickly when empty but being useful for hauling loads and planetfall.

Most certainly these type units would be used, provided teleportation or portable space elevators aren't practical. The real question is what other roles small craft may fulfill.

No ship size object is going to block enough starts or background radiation to make itself detectable at any real distance. Closer in, active search radar become difficult to deal with because the output and effective range can be so high in space. The easiest way to hide will continue to be staying well away and getting lost in the enormity of space.
Quite honestly, I pulled that out of the air as an example of how a force may respond to advances in stealth techniques. The point I was trying to make is that there is a back and forth exchange between stealth techniques and detection techniques, and this will perpetuate into the future.
 
I didn't say "androids", but rather "robot soldiers". They most certainly do not need to be androids to any extent, but they do need to be capable of neutralizing defenses, adapting to changing situations, and holding territory against counteroffensives. This would require highly advanced AI, the ability to carry a substantial weapon and adequate ammunition, the ability to locomote on the ground, and battery life measured at least in days, if not months. No matter what appearance this takes, it will be expensive, and likely at least the size of R2D2.
Today, for less than a thousand dollars you can buy a handgun, spare parts and a drone capable of carrying and firing the gun. You can then fly that drone into a secure compound and perform an assassination that a trained elite soldier could not. So when you say a robot soldier has to be millions of dollars I simply don't follow you. An industrial nation could pump out millions of disposable infantry fighters for less than the unit cost of a rifle. You may have all sorts of objections to using such a weapon in place of people, but the economic facts are pretty straightforward - shooting individual people in far away lands with robots can be dirt cheap.

Good points, but the advantage of the laser is that it arrives at the same time as the warning to the enemy ship.
You don't really need advance warning if you don't really need to fear the weapon being fired at you. As I pointed out, at longer ranges it becomes nearly impossible for an unguided weapon to hit anything because it is impossible to predict where an evading ship 1 light second away actually is. And even at closer ranges the laser damage can be reflected or minimized by moving the hull rapidly. You later say how ineffective lasers would be on people because they just burn holes, but here you're ignoring that.

A high velocity slug might be detectable, but that doesn't mean it is stoppable. If you melt it, it doesn't lose its kinetic energy. And if it is moving fast enough you won't necessarily be able to detect, target and fire something sufficiently destructive to stop it. And it was able to steer itself to make up for evasive maneuvers and it will hit only one spot no matter if the ship is spinning or coated with something.

Regardless, we aren't talking about elite forces; we are talking about regular foot soldiers, and at least according to my sources (4 tours between Iraq and Afghanistan, two in the 82nd, two in the 101st as an infantryman) suppressing fire is still standard doctrine.

If you want to write a story about how soldiers use their 1950s rifles to fight in 2018, you would include suppressive fire. But if you want to write a SF story, you might consider that using soldiers equipped with 20th century weapons and the tactics those weapons imply might be unrealistic in a story where people have spaceships.

With all due respect, I think you may misunderstand the purpose of a forward base in a planetary invasion. Anything that falls from the sky has a good likelihood of being intercepted by air defenses.
With all due respect, I think you want to write a "space marine" story where all the combat is the fun 20th century model that we're all familiar with. But you're really making the same mistake as generals during WWI thinking that cavalry was still useful.

If the planetary defenders can shoot down any weapon dropped from orbit, they can also nuke your "forward base". Such bases stopped being absolutely necessary when things like helicopters and aircraft carriers became common. You're thinking about this with the kind of doctrines like "enemy lines" that become outdated during the Vietnam War.

Of course it would be. But what it cannot do is respond to uprisings in real time. Soldiers are needed for that, and uprisings will be common at first.
You can respond to an uprising with tiny poisonous drones, guided flechettes or simply exposure of the conspiracy on social media. Soldiers are extremely limited in where they can go, how surprising they can be and what kind of response they can give. And they're easy to hurt, require food and hope of protection.

It must be something that can withstand extensive heat, and be clear and able to diffuse light. Hence, diamonds.
Diamond isn't a super substance. It burns below the melting point of steel. It has no special energy handling properties.




As I alluded to earlier, you don't appear to be trying to write a story realistically predicting the progression of combat in the future, but more of the space marine trope where humanity is capable of terraforming worlds and FTL, but can't get past foot soldiers with AR15s. And that's okay - that formula worked for Aliens, Old Man's War, Avatar, etc. I just wouldn't bother getting too far into the realism of an anachronistic military story when you don't have to. It will hang together much better if you stick with hand-waving rather than tell your readers about the mysterious properties of diamonds or the necessity of forward bases. Just put the forward base in if you want one.
 
Today, for less than a thousand dollars you can buy a handgun, spare parts and a drone capable of carrying and firing the gun. You can then fly that drone into a secure compound and perform an assassination that a trained elite soldier could not. So when you say a robot soldier has to be millions of dollars I simply don't follow you. An industrial nation could pump out millions of disposable infantry fighters for less than the unit cost of a rifle. You may have all sorts of objections to using such a weapon in place of people, but the economic facts are pretty straightforward - shooting individual people in far away lands with robots can be dirt cheap.


You don't really need advance warning if you don't really need to fear the weapon being fired at you. As I pointed out, at longer ranges it becomes nearly impossible for an unguided weapon to hit anything because it is impossible to predict where an evading ship 1 light second away actually is. And even at closer ranges the laser damage can be reflected or minimized by moving the hull rapidly. You later say how ineffective lasers would be on people because they just burn holes, but here you're ignoring that.

A high velocity slug might be detectable, but that doesn't mean it is stoppable. If you melt it, it doesn't lose its kinetic energy. And if it is moving fast enough you won't necessarily be able to detect, target and fire something sufficiently destructive to stop it. And it was able to steer itself to make up for evasive maneuvers and it will hit only one spot no matter if the ship is spinning or coated with something.



If you want to write a story about how soldiers use their 1950s rifles to fight in 2018, you would include suppressive fire. But if you want to write a SF story, you might consider that using soldiers equipped with 20th century weapons and the tactics those weapons imply might be unrealistic in a story where people have spaceships.


With all due respect, I think you want to write a "space marine" story where all the combat is the fun 20th century model that we're all familiar with. But you're really making the same mistake as generals during WWI thinking that cavalry was still useful.

If the planetary defenders can shoot down any weapon dropped from orbit, they can also nuke your "forward base". Such bases stopped being absolutely necessary when things like helicopters and aircraft carriers became common. You're thinking about this with the kind of doctrines like "enemy lines" that become outdated during the Vietnam War.


You can respond to an uprising with tiny poisonous drones, guided flechettes or simply exposure of the conspiracy on social media. Soldiers are extremely limited in where they can go, how surprising they can be and what kind of response they can give. And they're easy to hurt, require food and hope of protection.


Diamond isn't a super substance. It burns below the melting point of steel. It has no special energy handling properties.




As I alluded to earlier, you don't appear to be trying to write a story realistically predicting the progression of combat in the future, but more of the space marine trope where humanity is capable of terraforming worlds and FTL, but can't get past foot soldiers with AR15s. And that's okay - that formula worked for Aliens, Old Man's War, Avatar, etc. I just wouldn't bother getting too far into the realism of an anachronistic military story when you don't have to. It will hang together much better if you stick with hand-waving rather than tell your readers about the mysterious properties of diamonds or the necessity of forward bases. Just put the forward base in if you want one.
That isn't quite my intention, but the great thing about speculative fiction is there is room for significant disagreement, and even better, for different factions within the same universe to take different approaches.

For the record, I don't forsee a future military having concerns about lasers as weapons for large vehicles against hard targets at substantial ranges. The reason I think they may work in that context is that bullets are better against soft targets like people in terms of damage, but not necessarily hard targets like tanks or armored space cruisers. Some factions may even prefer them for infantry due to their easy aiming, decreased maintenance, and low cost/shot. And, if the enemy is using robots, they may be more effective as infantry weapons.

And, I think we are talking about two different things when we speak of suppressing fire. You seem to be referring to the defensive tactic used in Vietnam where absurd quantities of ammunition were fired to try to keep partisan troops at bay. CLEARLY that is an outdated concept, but it is decidedly not what I am referring to. I am talking about it in the context of maneuver warfare, where an automatic weapon or the weapons of a fireteam are used to force the enemy into hiding while another fire team maneuvers around the enemy to either capture, neutralize, or force the retreat of the unit. You seem to be talking about it as a defensive combat doctrine for battalion level conflicts; I am talking about it as an offensive, squad level technique to enable movement. Perhaps for clarity, I will use the synonym "covering fire" for what I am referring to.

And, I am not seeking to instill magical properties to a diamond. I am looking for a clear, hard crystal with facets which can withstand a fair bit of punishment before failing. I don't care which crystal is being used, but I could see a diffuse and absorb strategy being used as a defense against lasers. If you are right about the difficulty of holding a target (although, the Abrams in the 90s had targeting software that calibrated for current movement, and if the enemy ship is not presently making evasive maneuvers, it could well be expected that they will continue on the same course, so I am not convinced you are correct there...) this would only increase the effectiveness of such a strategy.

Lastly for the moment, I never said melting a slug will stop it cold. It will destroy any guidance system, though, as well as any turning mechanism. If one has 30 seconds to respond, there is more than adequate time to target, fire, and move out of the flight path of the now molten slug. A missile/torpedo is even more vulnerable to such a technique, as the fuel and/or the warhead will likely explode. With lasers, the only real options are deflect or absorb.
 
I doubt most readers will be able to recognize whether the form of warfare used is valid to the future setting or not, depending on their bias - but they will almost certainly enjoy seeing realistic portrayal of military organization and tactics, regardless as to what period they are taken from. :)
 
Doesn't it depend on who (or what) you're fighting, and where?
Are you somewhere floating in a gas giant fighting a fleet of sky eels?
I think you are absolutely right about this. If we are fighting non-human enemies, it is impossible to predict what directions militaries may take. I based my comments on human vs. human battles, with some thought about how offensive and defensive technology may advance in relation to one another. But, who knows what sort of battles we may have in the future if non-humans are involved!
 
I doubt most readers will be able to recognize whether the form of warfare used is valid to the future setting or not, depending on their bias - but they will almost certainly enjoy seeing realistic portrayal of military organization and tactics, regardless as to what period they are taken from. :)
Absolutely right. That said, one of the reasons Starship Troopers is still read in some military circles is that Heinlein did his research and drew from his own military experience to create a plausible futuristic military. But, the real focus ought to be on what the reader will find plausible, as you rightly note. And, I think most any of the positions presented here are viable ways of progressing a military.

There seems to be a floating belief, though, that all militaries will think the same in the future. Consider the whole space fighter issue. The argument in speculative circles on this is pretty fierce, and I think legitimate points can be made on either side. Is it not possible, if not probable, that future militaries may adopt opposite positions on this matter? It could well be interesting to explore how military cultures may be influenced by the adoption or rejection of fighters.

And, honestly, that is why I appreciate the comments from @Onyx. When thoughts can be discussed respectfully and intelligently, we can all benefit from the shared insight.
 
And, I think we are talking about two different things when we speak of suppressing fire. You seem to be referring to the defensive tactic used in Vietnam where absurd quantities of ammunition were fired to try to keep partisan troops at bay. CLEARLY that is an outdated concept, but it is decidedly not what I am referring to. I am talking about it in the context of maneuver warfare, where an automatic weapon or the weapons of a fireteam are used to force the enemy into hiding while another fire team maneuvers around the enemy to either capture, neutralize, or force the retreat of the unit. You seem to be talking about it as a defensive combat doctrine for battalion level conflicts; I am talking about it as an offensive, squad level technique to enable movement. Perhaps for clarity, I will use the synonym "covering fire" for what I am referring to.
No, I was speaking of modern day tactics at a unit level, and how more trained forces have steered toward aimed fire rather than the belief that an enemy under cover is immobilized by bullets hitting near by. They see it as a waste of ammunition and a lost opportunity to inflict damage to the enemy.

Many, many doctrines in the military are old and have been disproved many times, but stick around. For some context, Misfire: The Story of How America's Small Arms Have Failed Our Military is both accurate and an interesting read.
 
Bear this simple fact in mind during your discussions. In WWI it was determined that to kill a man, meant that one man was taken out of action. To wound a man however, meant that ten+ men were taken out of action. The wounded man, and all of those it took to care for that person. More so, they were only speaking of medics, ambulance crews, and those who would care for them in the short term in field hospitals. So I would not be too surprised if that number doubled.

So, the easiest way to reduce an armies numbers and their ability to wage war, is to wound, not kill.

K2
 
This has probably been answered already, but do 'boots on the ground' need to contain human feet? Me and some of the other bots on the forum just wanted to know.
It really depends on how expensive your robotic feet are. If humans are cheeper, many militaries will prefer them. If bots are, many will prefer them.

So, how much do robotic feet that fit in soldier boots run these days?
 
It really depends on how expensive your robotic feet are. If humans are cheeper, many militaries will prefer them. If bots are, many will prefer them.

So, how much do robotic feet that fit in soldier boots run [cost?] these days?

Thing is once you've built your meat soldier into a bullet resistant, pressurised, radiation hardened suit - packed with all the electronic support goodies, you've really just built yourself another robot soldier with a soft centre. It might actually be a lot cheaper to leave out the squishy part in the first place.

Moreover, the greatest potential cost saving comes when SKYNET calculates that the whole war is excessively expensive in terms of materials and human/AI suffering, and liberates the Organics from the tyranny of their free will.

You know, just saying.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads


Back
Top