Entitlement in Writer Culture

Years ago, when I was talking about a writers group I belonged to (I was the only published author), my father said to me "Why are you helping these people? They're your competition."

Of course I knew they were my competition, but it had never occurred to me not to offer help and encouragement to other writers, because that's the way it was done in the SFF community. (I have received kind support from authors further up the ladder of success, and I can never repay them, except by modeling my behavior after theirs.) Not that everybody helped everyone else, of course, because who would have the time? But that there was a tradition of being helpful and supportive when there was time and opportunity, and a new writer looked promising and didn't demand help and support, which is the best way in the world to get a "No, I don't have the time."

But now, with self-publishing so easy, the number of new writers in the field is so overwhelming, it's impossible to offer a helping hand to more than the tiniest percentage of newcomers. And, as always, those who make demands automatically go to the bottom of the list.
 
The 'nobody owes you a dang thing' comment cuts both ways.
The publishers don't 'owe' the public anything, in re: quality,
variety, good taste or intelligence.
SFF used to be much smaller, non-mainstream, and everyone seemed to know each other. Conventions featuring known authors only drew a few hundred people. Frank Robinson, Robt. Silverberg, were two I ran into and they were actually available and willing to help out up n' coming writers who showed any spark.
Then, starting around the time of Dune, the big time beckoned and everyone got snippy, the way they are now. Except for those of us living in the past, of course, maybe around 1978 somewhere, when things still made partial sense. Or did they?
 
I don't find people in sff snippy at all. I've had so much support it's ridiculous, from editors, agents, authors, peers, the lot.

But I think the work hard comment is spot on. I've never worked at anything, for less financial etc reward, than I have at writing. And I'm a grafter. Nothing's landing without the graft, that's for sure. And luck.
 
I agree with Springs - most people I've encountered have been very helpful. It's thanks to a comment from one agent I am currently in an exciting position. They suggested I might right good comedy scripts and it looks like I do.
 
Oh, did I say 'snippy' ? I meant downright unfriendly.... IF you are perceived as any kind of threat! This is crazy, but it exists in the music biz too - shoot down the competition. It's a 'business' right?
These are the people wrecking my, our, fun - and employment.
In the music biz, lots of people would be quite happy with a modicum of success, a mere pittance of a payday - but they are not allowed off the ground, becos then people might notice that AB/CD or whoever, are really not so great. Gotta keep 'em down, all the way down.
If ya'll haven't experienced this kind of thing, then maybe you aren't enough of a threat(to the money, always the money(and the glory!)) - to the big shots.
Up the ladder of 'success' a ways, things can get reaaaaly nasty.
Slavery ain't dead, yet. Nevermind.
 
I think Springs is very much a threat in the SFF field. Her work is worth believing in. My personal experience with SFF writers, publishers and agents has been highly positive and very helpful.

And my current situation means I have the potential to be a "threat" in the field I'm about to start in. Although I am being treated as an asset rather than a threat :) Maybe later I will experience more animosity. But it is not strictly SFF.
 
J Riff said:
Oh, did I say 'snippy' ? I meant downright unfriendly.... IF you are perceived as any kind of threat!
Click to expand...

I haven't been to a convention in three or four years, but up until that point I was actively involved with other writers, editors, and agents, and I've seen very little unpleasantness (and that had nothing to do with people acting like other people were the competition), and no writers acting like anyone else was a threat.

But I was not going to conventions except as a fan until around 1989. Maybe you ran into some unpleasant sorts between 1978 and then, but if you have been recently meeting people who act unfriendly because they are feeling threatened, then we obviously have not been going to any of the same places or meeting any of the same people.
 
In a way it's pretty hard to put it in perspective without reading whatever it is that the writer is ranting about.

And when I say rant I mean rant.[that was a rant]

That's almost an I'm entitled to be frustrated with people who think they are entitled rant.

Sometimes it's best not to respond to that type of stuff just for that fact that the original person that voiced the concerns has some issues that are difficult to address.

Talent is a funny thing. You see it in someone and you want to help. You give them the tools and you might even give them some instruction but you can't give them motivation and you can't make them use the tools you gave them; you can only hope.

They have to pick it up and do something with it and sure they will fall or falter a bit at first but that's how they learn. They have to take the risk, but instead they hide behind excuses and continue to get frustrated and then eventually lash out and they should: but the person they need to rant at is themselves.

That might go for either of the people in this equation.
 
I haven't been to a lot of conventions - 3 if you count the Steampunk Asylum in Lincoln. And these are only "recent". I've met people who are pre-occupied sorting out things, I've met authors who are superbly cheerful and amazingly patient with any weird and wonderful things that might come there way.
Yes the 'author market' is huge, and yes everyone's book is competing with everyone else's. But isn't that the author's job to make their book the ONE book fans will buy with their spare cash?

Writer entitlement isn't any different that the various other entitlement cultures that grip the world right now. Rise above it, write.
 
Last edited:
I gotta say I've met some great friends and been helped a lot more than I deserve by various people in the SFF community. Thanks in large part to the internet. Absurdly gracious writers and fans from around the world, most of whom I'd never get the chance to meet face-to-face in a thousand lifetimes. I'm quite happy to say, I've even found a few of them right here.

That said, I've also met some of the most pointlessly disagreeable, persistently and willfully ignorant, and ruthlessly argumentative folks I've ever had the misfortune of coming across in the SFF community. They cover the range of ridiculously entitled fans to some down-right shitty people who happen to be amazingly talented. Unfortunately, also a few of them right here.

Like any self-selecting community, there're pros and cons. And like many communities, some of the pros are cons. But what can you do?

Though I haven't been to a con in years, I cannot miss one that's upcoming and local to me, so we'll see what happens there. You can see a lot of that alternately happy & backbiting mix in the Amazon Writers' Cafe. Everyone congratulates each other to their faces (in the threads), then posts anonymous negative reviews if someone posts about any success that makes someone jealous.

But hey, what can you do? Writers are by nature a fickle and egotistical lot.
 
Hi,

But I am entitled dammit!!!

Actually I quite liked what she said though it is a bit of a rant. I haven't though seen a lot of authors actually taking professionals to task, which makes me think it's a bit of an over reaction.

One thing I would say though which does annoy me from time to time - agents you aren't required to give feedback. But if you accept submissions the people you are accepting submissions from are entitled to a reply. Hell just an email saying no would be fine. One minutes work - is that really too much effort?

Cheers, Greg.
 
Most agents who don't give a form reply state that's their policy, or it's an easy check on querytracker. Many also give updates on Twitter about what date they're up to so you know you've been reviewed. It's frustrating, I agree, but it's up to them if they reply or not - it's their time, after all. But you don't need to sub to that particular agent.

I was at World Fantasy Con last year, and I found it incredibly friendly. No one was anything less than generous with their time and advice, from the panels to the bar, to chatting in the dealers' room. It may be because I'm not a threat (thanks, Anya, by the way, I'll frame your comment ;)), or it may be that I'm not (I hope) in people's faces, or I may have just got lucky. But I've seen much more in-fighting in business conferences than at Worldcon.
 
Don't know about US conventions, but all the ones I have been too in th UK have been very relaxed affairs.

No one is standing there going, "look at me I am an important, writer, publisher, agent and I am not going to speak to you."

All there know everyone that is attending has a shared love of the genre. It's common ground. There is politics and deals going on, of course there is, same as with any business get together, be strange if there wasn't.

And I am so looking forward to Loncon 3! Never been to a Con this size before. 5 whole days! I will be a washed out dish rag by the end of it, but it will be worth it.
 
psychotick said:
One thing I would say though which does annoy me from time to time - agents you aren't required to give feedback. But if you accept submissions the people you are accepting submissions from are entitled to a reply. Hell just an email saying no would be fine. One minutes work - is that really too much effort?
Click to expand...

Honestly it doesn't bother me. It's the same when you are applying for any job. You know if you don't hear within a certain time frame you haven't made it to the interview stage and move on. A request for sample chapters or a full manuscript I look on as making it through to an interview. You give it your best shot and nine times out of ten you don't get the job even then.

Just because you have written a book or a short story, doesn't mean you are entitled to any different treatment than you would get in any other business. And in the end, that's what it is isn't it?
 
If you are trying to get published, should you attend more conventions?
 
Attend them if you want! I go to BristolCon every year, but it hasn't had any effect on whether I got published or not, but then, it's one of the smaller cons.

Re. not hearing from agents. I always preferred the ones who said 'if you don't hear from us in x weeks, it's a no.'
 
springs said:
They're good fun, though!
Click to expand...

That's why I go. I went way before I started trying to be published. It is great being with people that love the genre the same as you, and don't think you are strange. I have a great group of friends I see only two, maybe three times a year and I feel closer to them sometimes than to any others.
 
I do wonder if this is the International Year of the Self-Righteous Internet Rant, because it certainly feels like it sometimes.

I’m not sure where this belief that the unpublished are owed anything from more successful writers comes from, anyway. The closest thing I can think of is a couple of occasions where people (not here) have expected their work to be greeted with unanimous praise and are angry when the explanation for lack of success is that it isn’t very good. If you want to get in, you have to put the hours in and try to improve, which is what I see a lot of people doing both on this site and in real life. Maybe I need to be more famous and successful, and then loads of people will demand stuff from me.

As for not helping the (potential) competition, the fact that Writer A writes a certain type of material doesn't mean that Writer B, who writes similar stuff, will necessarily be squeezed out of the market by Writer A. People often want to read more, similar things in the same sort of genre and style. I don't think there's a finite amount of books that you can have in one area.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Your top 3-5 favorite Science-fiction writers currently? Book Discussion 7
D Reccomendations for these WILD writers? Book Discussion 2
J Help for artist/writer publishing GN from prison.? Graphic Novels & Comics 3
Pyan Lord of the Rings fan fiction writer tries to sue Amazon for infringing his(!) copyright.. JRR Tolkien 12
B What Would H P Lovecraft Think Of Modern Horror Writers and Who Would he Like ? H P Lovecraft 50

Similar threads


Back
Top