Self-publishing paperbacks

[HareBrain]

I'm researching self-pubbing at the mo. One book I read, which seems to offer loads of useful advice (Self-Printed by Catherine Ryan) suggests that Createspace is the way to go for a paperback version. But I'd previously got the impression that Createspace (or any POD) is no good for longer books because the unit cost gets too high. Mine would be about 160k words. Has anyone here used CS for a book that length?

Also, does anyone have experience of offset litho printing? If so, why did you choose it? (I have to say I prefer the feel of the books produced this way.)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

offset litho printing

You doing a 10K+ print run?

For low volumes, Amazon and others offer a "print on demand" service. Lots of Chinese and East European companies offer economic low volume hardback or paperback for 5 copies to 5,000 copies. No idea of the print technology used.

Set up cost for Litho is high and proportional to number of pages. Unit cost after setup is the lowest.

 

[HareBrain]

You doing a 10K+ print run?

Not contemplating anything that high, though I do have an under-utilised basement. Would you say this is the kind of volume needed to break-even with the cost of Createspace? (Which is the POD service linked to Amazon, I think?)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

10K+ is sort of the ballpark for Litho printing. POD is usually NOT litho printing as it's for low volume. Clue in name!

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I've used CS to create paperbacks for books rangingin size from 47k to 250k. That larger book I ended up having to price at $25 which is too much.

However you can decrease your costs. Use a larger paper size (nine by six in my case) and smaller font and the number of pages decreases. (I used twelve point simply because I like being able to read things more clearly, but I could have gone for ten. I could also have used a less space wasting format and fiddled with the line spacing as well, and a seven hundred page book could have become say five hundred. To decrease costs further I could have chosen not to publish the book through the additional channels - libraries / book shops etc - instead just sticking to the basic channels - Amazon and CS. This saves a few bucks per book.)

Cheers, Greg.

 

[HareBrain]

Thanks Greg

This saves a few bucks per book.

I assume you mean a few bucks in up-front costs per title published, rather than per unit sold?

 

[Mouse]

Why are you self-publishing?! Have you tried agents and publishers?

I used Lulu for all three of my YA books, but this was a few years ago now and the longest of those is only 80k.

Now that I'm re-doing them, I'm only going to make them available as ebooks. For me, the paperbacks didn't sell nowhere near as well as the ebooks did, so it's pointless even going down that route this time.

 

[tinkerdan]

I have not done createspace but have looked into it.

I've used Xlibris when they are running specials; the and the package I get includes some editing and all of the interior design and though it should include full cover design I don't let them do that I have yet to have their design people come up with anything close to myself or a graphic artist might do.

As far the the books I have 200k and 250k pages so my books are quite large and I've been able to get the hard bound and paper down to about 15.00(us) each for hard bound cost to me and 10 for the trade paperback. I have not ordered as large a quantity as you are talking and that might change the price.

The overall setup fee for createspace is less than I would pay Xlibris if I were to go without any extra editing which I would only do if I were ready to make a second run of the two novels I have, that have been edited. (with Xlibris you retain full rights to your work; though their final interior design and such belong to them.)

Presently with createspace if I ran the two book my best cost price per book would be close to the 10.00 each price I get with Xlibris. Again I didn't go for 10K copies but every time I upped the quantity in createspace the price didn't change.

Presently Xlibris deals with Amazon and Barnes an Noble (they send electronic files to them and Amz and B&N use their own Printers to create the copies for their customers.) There is not much advertising that happens for these. With the right plan you can set your own price depending on how much you want to make over the cost, but as far as I know that only applies to the books on Xlibris site. Amz and B&N start with the retail price and work down from there and that is pretty high for my books.


Possibly with createspace you might get more advertisement potential from Amazon.

Truth is though that most advertisement is devoted to known bestselling authors.

We Self Publish! Because! We Can.

But we're not trying to force anyone else to self publish.

It's a personal decision.

We're comfortable with it; if you are not then it's probably not for you.

Either way it doesn't hurt to ask for advice.

 

[HareBrain]

Why are you self-publishing?! Have you tried agents and publishers?

I'm going to carry on doing so for a bit, but I'm trying to educate myself about what self-pubbing really involves if you want to make a success of it, and the work involved. To be honest, I doubt TGP will be taken up -- as a debut novel, it's too long. But we'll see. No doors closing yet.

I would want a paperback edition though, just because some people prefer physical books (myself included), and the up-front cost for CreateSpace isn't much.


ETA: thanks for the info Tinkerdan. But I'm not contemplating 10k copies! I might have a look at Xlibris though. (And I wouldn't expect any advertising/promotion.)

 

[Mouse]

Lulu is free.

 

[HareBrain]

But I think Lulu is more expensive per unit, and from what I've read (though this info is a couple of years old) the quality of CS is higher. I've bought two CS books and, though not as nice as offset litho, they're not bad.

 

[Mouse]

I can post you a copy of one of my books from Lulu if you like? So you can see the quality, don't actually read the thing cos it's poop.

 

[HareBrain]

That's very kind, Mouse. I'll keep it in mind. (And I'm sure it's not poop. Certainly not compared to a couple of other self-pub books I've bought, anyway.)

 

[Mouse]

No, it is. I'm de-pooping it at the mo!

 

[tinkerdan]

Writing comes from the gut so you should expect a little poop now and then.(clears the colon.)

We should start a publishing company and call it Pu-pu.

Instead of putting your work in queue it will go to the Loo.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

I'm going to carry on doing so for a bit, but I'm trying to educate myself about what self-pubbing really involves if you want to make a success of it, and the work involved. To be honest, I doubt TGP will be taken up -- as a debut novel, it's too long. But we'll see. No doors closing yet.

I would want a paperback edition though, just because some people prefer physical books (myself included), and the up-front cost for CreateSpace isn't much.

ETA: thanks for the info Tinkerdan. But I'm not contemplating 10k copies! I might have a look at Xlibris though. (And I wouldn't expect any advertising/promotion.)

The two bolded bits above are contradictory and will cost you a lot of time and money. If you honestly want success as a self-pubbed author, use Amazon. Sell your book as both an ebook and a print book through them. Use POD always. Printing up even a thousand copies of your book will involve a significant upfront cost, fill up a lot of space, and most likely not sell much outside of friends and family.

The trick to being successful is to write the book with your heart and publish with your head. The reality is so far in favor of ebooks and POD that going print only (and especially any kind of upfront bulk printing at that) is honestly throwing money away and risking financial ruin (depending on how far you're willing to go).

I've watched more than a few friends do basically the exact same thing you're thinking about and ruin themselves financially because they "just knew" their book was great and would sell clashed ever so harshly with reality.

It's free to publish your book digitally through Amazon. Go over to KBoard's Writers' Cafe and ask there about setting up POD through Amazon. It's likely free or really cheap. The only other upfront costs would be an editor and cover design.

 

[HareBrain]

The two bolded bits above are contradictory and will cost you a lot of time and money.

How come? I thought publishing through Createspace and selling through Amazon is basically free?

And I didn't say I was planning to go print only, nor would I -- that would be madness. The strategy advocated by the book I linked to, and which seems to make sense, is Kindle and Smashwords for digital, with CreateSpace POD for print selling mainly through Amazon. I wondered if anyone had experience of litho because I prefer the aesthetics, but yes, it does increasingly seem that the print side is best handled by POD.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I try to avoid pooping in public at all times.

I disagree with you, oh Hare. The length might be a challenge for agents, the quality of writing is not. Now, out there with you.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

How come? I thought publishing through Createspace and selling through Amazon is basically free?

And I didn't say I was planning to go print only, nor would I -- that would be madness. The strategy advocated by the book I linked to, and which seems to make sense, is Kindle and Smashwords for digital, with CreateSpace POD for print selling mainly through Amazon. I wondered if anyone had experience of litho because I prefer the aesthetics, but yes, it does seem that the print side is best handled by POD.

Good heavens. Sorry, I didn't see a mention of digital and read your "POD is bad" statement as suggesting you were planning on printing up a thousand or more copies of your book and trying to hand sell them over time. As you say, that way lies madness.

 

[HareBrain]

your "POD is bad" statement

Oops if I gave that impression. What I meant was that POD = fairly high unit cost for long books, you can't have a nice matt cover and the paper feels a bit funny. I am willing to concede, though, that the latter two are aesthetic nit-picking.