The Edgar Rice Burroughs Thread

tinkerdan said:
it's a problem in transcription and does not exist in the original
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You can download html or text from Gutenberg and fix them.
Mostly OCR is used from originals and then the OCR is proof read. Very few books are actually full typed by hand from paper. Google uses a dual camera and page turner. Many people cut the binding and use industrial duplex sheet feeder scanners, quite a few old giant text books I have are just internal TIF image PDFs as they are 400 to 2000+ pages. Too much work to reset the illustrations / graphs / tables / photos etc and proof read.

Calibre even lets you edit the internal HTML of non-DRM eBooks.

Gutenberg image formatting is non-existent. I'm going to fix and publish free some of the more popular classics that are out of copyright in "mobi" (Kindle) and ePub (Kobo, Nook and Adobe Reader) format and fix the image layout and any typos / OCR errors I spot.

I've found too that Kobo Reader creates random fake typos when reading "mobi" files. Convert to ePub (or download ePub version) and they vanish. The "errors" are something in the Kobo software as the same mobi file is OK on PC mobipocket reader and physical Kindle. Odd.
 
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If you can honestly say that you are not basing your statements on the information below::
Richard HR Penn said:
Female characters today have to act and have male characteristics. It takes away from women.
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::I might even try to consider what you are saying
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/sexual-orientation-gender/gender-gender-identity

WORDS COMMONLY USED TO DESCRIBE FEMININITY
dependent
emotional
passive
sensitive
quiet
graceful
innocent
weak
flirtatious
nurturing
self-critical
soft
sexually submissive
accepting

WORDS COMMONLY USED TO DESCRIBE MASCULINITY
independent
non-emotional
aggressive
tough-skinned
competitive
clumsy
experienced
strong
active
self-confident
hard
sexually aggressive
rebellious
- See more at: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/le...r/gender-gender-identity#sthash.dkEjlAn7.dpuf

The above seems to define someones perception of femininity and masculinity but there are feminine characters in ERB's fiction that defy this narrow definition. So many of his female characters have masculine traits under this definition.
 
This is the exact debate I did not want to get into. A housewife is often described as dependant and as you list there. I am guessing this is where you are leading. A housewife, took care of the family and is typically described in this fashion. It does not respect the reality of what the male and female role was nor how women supported the family and their husband. Today, a good wife of olden times is looked down upon. If you can say that women are equal to men in every way, what are the differences? What makes the two halves whole? If one does not respect or understand that two halves make a whole, there is no real basis for a discussion.

Two halves to a whole does make for a great story though. Many good stories take advantage of this and run with it.

I'll leave you with this thought, a man wants to be independent to be there for his family. He wants to break ties from dependency of his parents to be independent in life.

An independent woman today, wants independence from her husband planning for the day the marriage dissolves. She is planning for failure and not for a successful marriage. Hopefully, there are women who also want to be independent in life to be there for their family with that husband, but today's society proves that is not the case with all the single parents in this current world. It is the very thing that people warned us about 40 years ago and was hushed up by modern thinking. Today's independence is not really independence that works towards a common goal, marriage. It is independence from marriage and the obligation of working together.

A woman can be strong and be there for the family. She can be a mother bear that protects her family. It is a different strength from a man. Those differences when honored make for a great relationship and a great story.

PS, You do realize that list paints a pretty nasty picture of masculinity and does not respect masculinity.
 
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Richard HR Penn said:
Two halves to a whole does make for a great story though. Many good stories take advantage of this and run with it.

I'll leave you with this thought, a man wants to be independent to be there for his family. He wants to break ties from dependency of his parents to be independent in life.

An independent woman today, wants independence from her husband planning for the day the marriage dissolves. She is planning for failure and not for a successful marriage. Hopefully, there are women who also want to be independent in life to be there for their family with that husband, but today's society proves that is not the case with all the single parents in this current world. It is the very thing that people warned us about 40 years ago and was hushed up by modern thinking. Today's independence is not really independence that works towards a common goal, marriage. It is independence from marriage and the obligation of working together.

A woman can be strong and be there for the family. She can be a mother bear that protects her family. It is a different strength from a man. Those differences when honored make for a great relationship and a great story.

PS, You do realize that list paints a pretty nasty picture of masculinity and does not respect masculinity.
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That's a narrow view of independence and it is in striking contrast to the two halves to a whole you use at the beginning.

A man and a woman both strive to be independent of their families so they might build a family together. They both come to depend on each other and both have major roles in the family as equals and they both maintain a spirit of independence to the extent that they can live without the other if a time comes for that; while neither are all that eager for that time to come.

In fact that describes the true relationship between Dejah Thoris and John Carter.

My point was that your description sounds like those I listed above and it still does and those listed in planned parenthood are severely flawed.
 
Richard HR Penn said:
Female characters today have to act and have male characteristics.
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What is your benchmark?
Who/what defines "male" and "female" characteristics? Baywatch? Apart from the obvious anatomical and physiological details, and getting away from the more clicheed aspects of gender depiction in popular fiction and culture, I would say that good writing treats its characters as complex people and not cardboard props. How about a bit of Jane Austen? Pride and Predjudice's (1813) Elizabeth Bennet, for example. How about Portia from Merchant of Venice (ca. 1600)? Or Astrid Lindgren's Pippi Longstocking (1945)?


It takes away from women.
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By what narrow metric?
 
Is this discussion about my view of male female roles or how books and movies are blending male female characteristics into one non gender role or is this a bash on what you think my values are? One only has to take a look at the successful stories to see that they usually have the stereotypical roles with possibly a blend of other characteristics. If this is a discussion on that, I am here. If this is your interpretation of what my own personal standards may be, thats my business not yours.

For characters I use any and all tools/characteristics at my disposal. That is far more important to me than what any standard may be.
 
This discussion started here::
Richard HR Penn said:
Female characters today have to act and have male characteristics. It takes away from women.
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:: and no; its a discussion about female characters in Edgar Rice Burroughs work both in canon and in contemporary media because this is a thread about Edgar Rice Burroughs. Your broad statement confused us and we were hoping to narrow it down, but frankly I'm still confused.

Personally I don't feel that the female characters in ERB works need that much tweaking both because they aren't stereotypical of the era they were written in and are not so much so of today's women, but they were his best attempt at something that has a bit more depth than many female characters in fiction of his time.
 
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Getting back to Edgar Rice Burroughs: Back when I read these books so long ago they seemed to be some of the best Fantasy and Science Fiction out there and the characters acted appropriate to the time they were written. Keeping in mind that even though it was fantasy and science fiction it still took place back in an era behind us and was and still is appropriate for that era even now.
..Possibly trying to make them contemporary does involve changing the dynamic quite a bit. But I'm not buying the notion that making a woman independent and strong and proactive and able to handle many situations without a mans help, can in any way makes her masculine.
 
The Barsoom novels were the first books I ever read and so hold a special memory for me. I am still amazed at the level of imagination in these books and many a more recent author could learn from these rich tales. The books were written in the early 1900s and when the film John Carter came out someone criticised it as "not being new" and "I've seen it all before." That made me feel very angry!! From a nostalgia viewpoint - the film was tremendous. They should have called it "a Princess of Mars" though.

I read Tarzan much later in life. I was born in Kenya so tales of Africa hold me spellbound. I loved the films and thought - if the films are good what must the books be like and I wasn't disappointed. Burroughs was very astute in some ways and his view of the apes and the other animals was fascinating. I think that's what brought the tales to life. It's a shame though that there hasn't been a film to match the book.
 
I was one of the people that wasn't very pleased with John Carter when I first saw it. Not because it was 'old' or that it wasn't well presented (it's a gorgeous film). My problem was with some of the changes made that altered the book too much in my mind. I've come to enjoy the film on it's own merits, but I don't think of it as A Princess of Mars. I would like to see another film done, but with stricter adherence to the source.

As for Tarzan, I love Tarzan and I'm hoping the live action version of The Jungle Book will spark some interest in that direction.
 
Vince W said:
I was one of the people that wasn't very pleased with John Carter when I first saw it. Not because it was 'old' or that it wasn't well presented (it's a gorgeous film). My problem was with some of the changes made that altered the book too much in my mind.
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I agree John Carter needed a second sitting. In a a similar way I disliked Arnold Schwarzenegger's version of Conan, as it didn't match the book. But, after a while, it became one of my favourite films. How can that happen?
 
I think we just tend to think of them as Burroughs or Howard adjacent. Not the real thing, but a close enough parallel that if you squint hard enough you can see the outlines of the real thing.
 
Vertigo said:
I've enjoyed the Barsoom novels I've read but they don't suffer too close an examination. The character's motivations are largely laughable, the plot holes enormous and the misogyny and racism exceptional. now some of that is down to the era when they were written but not all by a long way. Look closely and you realise they are pulp fiction, good pulp fiction, but pulp fiction nonetheless. As I say I enjoy them and his imagination is certainly quite extraordinary but they are often put on pedestals that I don't think they truly deserve.
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Your criticisms are all valid but in my view there is still a valid reason the stories are "put on pedestals". The reason is, there's a certain magic in the way the ridiculous stories are told. Like subliminal advertising, it's something hidden in the style. Works like an incantation - at any rate it does on many readers. Burroughs wasn't a great brain but he was a great writer, instinctively. The howlers, the absurdities he gets away with, are a sign of his greatness.
 
Zendexor said:
Your criticisms are all valid but in my view there is still a valid reason the stories are "put on pedestals". The reason is, there's a certain magic in the way the ridiculous stories are told. Like subliminal advertising, it's something hidden in the style. Works like an incantation - at any rate it does on many readers. Burroughs wasn't a great brain but he was a great writer, instinctively. The howlers, the absurdities he gets away with, are a sign of his greatness.
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I agree that the tales were good, but written in a different age (1900s). People forget that -- it was a different time and much what we take for granted wasn't around then. The plots were similar, hero rescues girl and girl is kidnapped. However, his imagination was amazing and some of his creatures were really wild things; plant men with blood sucking hands, heads without a torso and a torso without a head -- very wacky.
 
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