Star Wars

[Harpo]

633 Squadron, not Dambusters

 

[BAYLOR]

I think the original trilogy was based on Flash Gordon, Dam Busters, Hidden Fortress, and various swashbucklers and westerns; in short, movies and TV shows that Lucas, the previous generation, and the next generation, saw.

For the prequels, Lucas tried to make the movies more mature by bringing in politics, but it didn't work because he they were targetting the older viewers who saw the original trilogy and younger people, including children. The result was a bewildering mixture of a banal political thriller and a children's show, with some of the original trilogy inserted in between.

For the sequels, they went back to the original trilogy, but still tried to mix with with a bit of political intrigue, rehashed older material (like another orphan on a desert planet and another Death Star), and then made them look like superhero movies, with overpowered protagonists, Matrix moves, unintentional humor (like Kylo removing his mask and Rose), bizarre allusions to the present (like military commanders with purple hair and insulting various male characters), and fantasy, like galloping horses in space.

Finally, because they paid so much for the franchise, did not get all rights, and have investors flush with cash and insisting on more profits, they have to come up with as many derivative works as possible and milk the IP for all its worth. This has led to a few surprises, like Rogue One and Mandalorian, but with most resembling 1970s TV shows and movies except with a Star Wars skin. In addition, viewers appear to be getting burned out, preferring to skip some shows and films or just watching them on streaming or from bargain bins or any free offering, and during their free time.

That reminds me of one news item about another franchise, and plans to come up with standalone works, so that viewers won't be confused by what happens in shows because they didn't get to watch or don't remember what happened in other films and shows.

When Lucas did and released the first film, he could not have imagined it would become the hit that it did. He had said that he ahad nine film plan for Star Wars ? Im rather skeptical that had any plan what soever at the time he did the first film.

 

[Matteo]

Yes...I'm sceptical of that claim also.

I'm sure I remember seeing "IV" originally - but I could be wrong since it's always there now. I also read that Luca$ had said it was to give the  impression that it was part of a longer story.

But that could be bogus. As could the "nine films" claim (that Luca$ said it).

 

[Harpo]

I was still at school when I first heard about Lucas saying it’d be nine films, so it was before The Empire Strikes Back, but probably after the first one.

 

[Swank]

No normal person goes on a date with plans for how the next eight are going to go. That doesn't mean they don't aspire to get at least eight more dates.

 

[paeng]

633 Squadron, not Dambusters

Maybe both?

 

[paeng]

When Lucas did and released the first film, he could not have imagined it would become the hit that it did. He had said that he ahad nine film plan for Star Wars ? Im rather skeptical that had any plan what soever at the time he did the first film.

According to one source, he was planning to make them right after releasing the second movie. I think the plan was for the first trilogy to be about Ben and Anakin, and set two decades before the original trilogy (which is the second), while the sequel trilogy was to be about Luke as a Jedi Knight and Leia.

Another source says that before this he was planning for twelve movies.

 

[Matteo]

There are so many stories, often based on "sources" and so reported as fact, surrounding Star Wars that it's difficult to know what's true. And I'm not sure that Luca$ himself is that reliable a source...

 

[Parson]

I do remember quite clearly (yes, I'm that old!) being told long before the second came out that Lucas had a 9 part series planned, but he went with what is now #4 because he thought that would be the story that would be easiest to get funded, and no one can say that he was certainly wrong about that. If you can put yourself back in the 1970's there wasn't much to suggest that such a Fantasy/S.F. movie would be anything more than an updated Flash Gordon movie and likely no more successful than they were.

 

[paeng]

Lucas himself is not a reliable source?

 

[Brian G Turner]

When Lucas did and released the first film, he could not have imagined it would become the hit that it did. He had said that he ahad nine film plan for Star Wars ? Im rather skeptical that had any plan what soever at the time he did the first film.

He had an outline idea at the very beginning, but Star Wars itself changed massively during development - the film we all know and love has absolutely no resemblance to Lucas's original treatment of it. A couple of names are familiar, that's all, but the characters themselves are utterly different.

So when Lucas talked about having other film ideas for the series, they were literally that - basic ideas, no outline, no drafts, though he might have imagined a few scenes he thought might be cool but may never have ever ended up in a finished film.

I got The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film for Christmas and it spends a lot of time on how the story treatment changed and developed - very eye-opening.

 

[Dave]

I do remember quite clearly (yes, I'm that old!) being told long before the second came out that Lucas had a 9 part series planned, but he went with what is now #4 because he thought that would be the story that would be easiest to get funded, and no one can say that he was certainly wrong about that. If you can put yourself back in the 1970's there wasn't much to suggest that such a Fantasy/S.F. movie would be anything more than an updated Flash Gordon movie and likely no more successful than they were.

Totally agree here and I'm also old enough to remember him making the 9 film claim, or at least reading of it at that time. However, that doesn't mean that he had 9 film scripts ready to go at all. He just had some partial stories in his head. The original film has a beginning and an end. It's the obvious story to choose. It is the reluctant hero's journey from farm boy to saviour. It doesn't need Vaders' own personal journey, or any of the pan-galactic politics, economics and Jedi History in the first three. He thought of "I am your father" later on, whatever else he might have said on that subject. I'm very doubtful that he had any idea what might be in the final three films, and it doesn't appear that if he did, they used those ideas anyway.

Lucas himself is not a reliable source?

No, not at all, he has said many conflicting and very different things at different times.

I think you have to remember that Lucas, and Spielberg, and all their fellow "Movie Brats," were not the rich and powerful directors they have become today. They were just students out of college and film schools, and not known. He was making pitches and looking for backers and for potential financiers to better visualise the project and his vision. Of course, he is going to talk up and exaggerate his claims and what he has written already, and how much people should invest in his project.

 

[Matteo]

My only doubt about him  not having the idea early on that Vader was Luke's father is that "vader" means "father" in dutch.

Seems too coincidental.

Also, when Ben tells Luke about him, it's subtle but you can see him hesitate before doing so - as though he's about to lie. But maybe I'm reading too much into that.

 

[Swank]

My only doubt about him  not having the idea early on that Vader was Luke's father is that "vader" means "father" in dutch.

Seems too coincidental.

Also, when Ben tells Luke about him, it's subtle but you can see him hesitate before doing so - as though he's about to lie. But maybe I'm reading too much into that.

Maybe Leigh Bracket is a Dutch speaker, and that's where she got the idea.

 

[Phyrebrat]

How many times as writers have we had over arching ideas for our opus (opii??) only for the process to disabuse us of that thought. There may be none, nine, three etc. World building and creative process are largely organic. Often we have massive backstories for our worlds and characters that never see the light of day beyond our own imagination.

The Journal of the Whills I think is probably the nearest we get to GL’s original vision.

It’s also relevant to factor in the animated shows which have used lots of these ideas that are related to the films but not actually in them.

Using the Whills again, the last three episodes of CW s6 deals with Yoda’s final lesson as a Master and he is guided by the Whills. In Rogue 1 the Whills guardians Baize and Chirrut are seen, too.

I do often marvel at the obsession fans and detractors alike have with the ‘it was meant to be x’ as some kind of justification for what they like or dismiss/dislike in SW.

Esp since the Disney buyout

 

[paeng]

No, not at all, he has said many conflicting and very different things at different times.

I think you have to remember that Lucas, and Spielberg, and all their fellow "Movie Brats," were not the rich and powerful directors they have become today. They were just students out of college and film schools, and not known. He was making pitches and looking for backers and for potential financiers to better visualise the project and his vision. Of course, he is going to talk up and exaggerate his claims and what he has written already, and how much people should invest in his project.

Which source is not conflicting or is reliable?

 

[Dave]

Which source is not conflicting or is reliable?

What's your actual point here? This isn't a Monty Python sketch about pointless arguments. You would expect that the person who wrote the actual thing would be most reliable, but Lucas has been reported to have said a number of different things about Star Wars over the years, and many of them conflict with each other. Is he much misquoted? Does he deliberately and compulsively lie? Is his memory of early events very poor? I really can't tell you why and who knows? I've given one explanation of why he might have exaggerated to big up or sex-up what he had, to gain more funding. To me that seems the most likely reason. I can't see why journalists would deliberately misquote him, and this discussion about whether he said he had written 9 scripts or not, I only heard it on forums like this as an argument, since I bought a PC in 2000. It isn't a big deal outside of fan circles. Nobody cares much. All I can tell you is that I certainly heard it back in late 1980, shortly before or after Empire was released. That almost certainly came from a respectable Film magazine of the day.

 

[CAOM]

No normal person goes on a date with plans for how the next eight are going to go. That doesn't mean they don't aspire to get at least eight more dates.

Yeah, it would be stupid to make such big plans ahead of time. Trying to predict everything is just a recipe for disaster.

 

[paeng]

What's your actual point here? This isn't a Monty Python sketch about pointless arguments. You would expect that the person who wrote the actual thing would be most reliable, but Lucas has been reported to have said a number of different things about Star Wars over the years, and many of them conflict with each other. Is he much misquoted? Does he deliberately and compulsively lie? Is his memory of early events very poor? I really can't tell you why and who knows? I've given one explanation of why he might have exaggerated to big up or sex-up what he had, to gain more funding. To me that seems the most likely reason. I can't see why journalists would deliberately misquote him, and this discussion about whether he said he had written 9 scripts or not, I only heard it on forums like this as an argument, since I bought a PC in 2000. It isn't a big deal outside of fan circles. Nobody cares much. All I can tell you is that I certainly heard it back in late 1980, shortly before or after Empire was released. That almost certainly came from a respectable Film magazine of the day.

If Lucas isn't reliable, then who is?

 

[Swank]

If Lucas isn't reliable, then who is?

No single person. Historians use the preponderance of evidence to figure out what was likely the truth, rather than relying on fallible single sources.