Help with some dialogue punctuation please?

[Kerrybuchanan]

I am trying to get to grips with the rules of dialogue punctuation, with the help of individual members here and of the Toolbox, but this one has me confused.

I have delivered part of a paragraph and want to plant some dialogue into the middle of it:

'...he found himself saying "I'll do it...." before he even knew what they they were asking of him.'

For the three words of dialogue, how should I punctuate?

Like this: '...saying, "I'll do it...."

Or like this: '...saying "I'll do it....."

Or some other way I haven't thought of?

Also, should the first word after the dialogue be capitalised or not? I have it as lower case.

I know this is a very novice question, and I really am trying to get to grips with the rules of writing, but sometimes my tiny brain just overheats, steam starts coming out of my ears and I need help!

 

[The Judge]

I'd go with

'... he found himself saying "I'll do it." before he even knew what they were asking of him.'

ie no need for a comma (as I read it there isn't a pause between "saying" and "I'll") and retain the lower case for "before" since it's a continuation of the sentence. I'd use a full stop** rather than ellipses for the dialogue, though, since presumably he's finished what he's saying, and he's not kind of leaving it open to say more, with his voice drifting off. (Though obviously if that is how you hear him saying it, use the ellipses!)

I have seen today (in one of Toby Frost's books actually) spoken dialogue in the middle of a sentence without any final punctuation (ie here ... "I'll do it" before he...) but while I can see the benefit of not having the full stop, that looked a bit unfinished to me and I don't know if it was deliberate or a typo anyway!


EDIT: ** but now see #9 below for a complete change of mind!

 

[HareBrain]

I'm not keen on having the full-stop in there, because it's all the same sentence. So I'd go with

'saying "I'll do it" before he even knew'

But with commas is acceptable too:

'saying, "I'll do it," before he even knew'

Depends how rushed you want it to sound.

(BTW an ellipsis only has three dots, plus another full-stop if it ends a sentence.)

 

[ratsy]

I'd do a comma I think. Also I would do "saying 'I'll do it,' before he even knew" because that is how my quotations roll

 

[Jo Zebedee]

To duck warily under TJ's gaze - I don't like the full stop after I'll do it. I can see why it's there, but the sentence doesn't actually stop.

I'd have:

'He found himself saying "I'll do it" before he even knew what they were asking of him.'

Slinks away humbly

Ps don't fear, Kerry - Pat Rothfuss has several places where his dialogue punctuation is out. Maybe I'll write and tell him....

Edit. Darn Hare. Wot he said. Quicker than I did....

 

[The Judge]

So there you are, Kerry. Three replies, three different answers...

Make that four and three as springs has sneaked in.


EDIT: Re the full stop within the quotation marks, my rationale is if he had screamed it you would have had ... "I'll do it!" before... and similarly if it were a question ... "I'll be doing what?" before... or if he'd broken off the sentence ... "I'll do -- " before ... and all of those would surely be better than no punctuation there, indicating how the dialogue was spoken, so the full stop had as much right to be there to confirm he'd finished what he was saying!

EDIT2: TDZ has confirmed I'm right with the exclamation mark, anyway!

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Hmm. It's odd, because I don't like the period in the middle of the sentence that way, but I don't think I would object to it as an exclamation point.

And I do generally use the comma before a quote, though I'm sure there's an argument for either way.

I would actually turn it around to save the worry, so:

'...before he even knew what they were asking of him, he found himself saying, "I'll do it."' (Or "I'll do it!"')

 

[HareBrain]

Hmm. It's odd, because I don't like the period in the middle of the sentence that way, but I don't think I would object to it as an exclamation point.

That's not odd at all, because an exclamation mark (or """"""""point""""""""") can also function like a comma in dialogue, same as a question ... thing. (Do you say "question point" en americaine?)

 

[The Judge]

Thinking further, of course it's equivalent to a "Yes," she said where the "Yes" may indeed be the end of a sentence, but nonetheless carries a comma, but it could also have an exclamation or question mark or an ellipses or long dash, but not a full stop. So ignore the full stop!

EDIT: HB got in there just ahead of me, dammit!

 

[Brian G Turner]

I've picked up a habit of using italics for issues like this, but I'm afraid I can't tell where from:


'...he found himself saying I'll do it before he even knew what they they were asking of him.'

 

[AnyaKimlin]

If it's reported speech does it take speech marks?

To be honest I would just write: He found himself saying I'll do it before he even knew what they they were asking of him

 

[HareBrain]

If it's reported speech does it take speech marks?

It's not reported, though.

Reported would be:

He found himself saying he'd do it before he even knew blah.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

But it also doesn't sound like dialogue - like he is saying it right there and then. Is he?

 

[HareBrain]

It is a bit of a strange one. Brian's italics would work just as well. To be honest, if I read it in a book with no italics and no quote marks, as you suggested, it wouldn't trouble me.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

That's not odd at all, because an exclamation mark (or """"""""point""""""""") can also function like a comma in dialogue, same as a question ... thing. (Do you say "question point" en americaine?)

Nope, we're just weird all the way around! I don't pronounce it the way Victor Borge does, either.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I've picked up a habit of using italics for issues like this, but I'm afraid I can't tell where from:

I think it was when I looked at italics use in general. I vaguely recall something about applying them to quotes. However, I may be mistaken. There's only a single instance where I use them that way in my WIP so I've not looked so deeply at that specific issue.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Thank you for reassuring me it wasn't a completely clear cut answer. If it's got this good a response it means I might have some wriggle space!

 

[FibonacciEddie]

it does seem to be an area of 'dealer's choice'

I find myself siding with Brian on the as is
'...he found himself saying I'll do it before he even knew what they they were asking of him.'

But actually... I'd go with Zebra
...before he even knew what they were asking of him, he found himself saying, "I'll do it."

 

[J Riff]

Gosh, you could use the rare colon and the good old dash and not be discorrect.

'...he found himself saying: "I'll do it." - before he even knew what they they were asking of him.'

Victor Borge. Dit.... blip, beep....