Copyrighted fonts and Kindle

[AnyaKimlin]

Are there certain fonts like Times New Roman etc that can't be used in a book we self publish?

It was a question brought up at my writer's group and caused a real commotion.

 

[Ursa major]

The non-backlit, non-tablet, non-application version of the Kindle has its own font (and no other).

I can't say anything about the other versions, as I don't have any of them (apart from the application, which I never use, as it defeats the object of not wanting to read from a computer screen).

 

[AnyaKimlin]

When we format a book for Kindle we choose the font. I have a non-backlit, non-tablet version of Kindle and it could display more than one font. Moriah Jovan's books are beautifully formatted.

 

[Ursa major]

So you can see other fonts on your basic Kindle?

Well, if that is possible, I don't think any of the publishers whose stories I have on my Kindle have bothered using them in their text (as opposed to the writing in, say, chapter titles**, which I suspect are actually images, not normal text at all).


** - The chapter titles in Nefertiti's Heart are quite fancy, but they come with a graphic and are clearly part of a combined image (and I can't find them with Find).

 

[Parson]

But if memory serves I do see other fonts when I read from Kindle app. on my phone.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Yes. The only ones I know for sure are very different are Moriah Jovan (self publisher) because whilst I don't usually care about the fonts hers were particularly beautiful . But my question is can we be sued if we use something like TImes New Roman when we self publish a story?

I don't know if her issue is true or not but I do know LibreOffice uses different terms for some fonts.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Yes. Some fonts are privately owned and copyrighted and not for general use - i.e. not public domain. However, stick to the fonts you'll find as standard on Word, and you should be fine. (Google public domain fonts.) If on the other hand you are not satisfied with them and search for other fonts, make sure to read the licencing agreements before you use them.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

No font is copied to an eBook Reader application or dedicated eBook Reader by an eBook. Some kindles have very few fonts and later (not DXG) have more fonts. If your physical reader or other device displays a font, then that font is either "free" or already paid for (or else the device or OS distributor broke copyright).
Only PDFs can embed fonts. Then since that font can't be used in another document, it's equivalent to a print out and normal OS font copyright issues exist, you can give or sell as many copies of the PDF as you like. (it's equivalent to printed copies).

The question ONLY exists for INSTALLING a font, not EVER using one in an eBook. On Mac OS, Windows and Linux obviously you can install a font that isn't distributed free and you didn't pay for. Even if you do it doesn't affect non-PDF eBook distribution or PDF without embedded font as they only ever use the Font the user already has.

On a physical Kindle you can only add "missing" fonts by "jail break" which if done wrong renders the device scrap (Bricked). Same applies to many other gadgets. The fonts available on Kindle are related to the Kindle OS version, not really the Hardware, but a new DXG has older OS (few fonts) compared to Paperwhite Touch Kindle (newer OS, many fonts).

For occasional use of non-Roman characters I insert images as the older Kindles otherwise can't display them at all.

eBooks (other than the special case of a PDF with optional embedded fonts chosen) only specify a font to use. They are really specialist web pages with images, CSS and HTML in a single file. Web pages are the same. For your browser to display "correctly" you have to already have the font specified.

So there is no point at all in downloading and installing special fonts on your Mac / Windows / Linux and then specifying them in an eBook. The user's reader will not have them.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Hi,

Yes. Some fonts are privately owned and copyrighted and not for general use - i.e. not public domain. However, stick to the fonts you'll find as standard on Word, and you should be fine. (Google public domain fonts.) If on the other hand you are not satisfied with them and search for other fonts, make sure to read the licencing agreements before you use them.

Cheers, Greg.

Are the ones as standard on Word Public Domain Fonts though? Because I know LibreOffice renames them?? Garamond is the only main one that remains the same.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

It's irrelevant for eBooks what your Libre Office uses. Similar nearly identical fonts from different sources have different names because the names are usually copyright. There may be very minor differences in two fonts also, resulting in different names. ITC owns a lot of names. Comic Sans, Arial, Courier New, Times New Roman and all the Lucidia fonts I think are copyright Microsoft names. In the intermediate CSS for an eBook (in the HTML or a related file) the fonts to use are named with a list of aliases. Most systems have a default for monospace (Courier, Lucida Console etc), sans (Arial, Verdana, various sans serif) and serif (Times, Times Roman, Times New Roman, Book Antigua, Georgia etc).

So the only things you can assume a target Web Browser, other PC user, eReader:

1. A proportional font with serifs like Roman
2. A proportional font without serifs, ie. sans serif
3. A monospace, non-proportional font, usually serif or else an "i" is daft compared to an m H w X Z etc.

Usually all of these can be about 5 obvious sizes

1. H1 (Largest Header)
   
2. H2
3. H3
4. Normal/body
5. small (for small footnotes , superscript or subscript)

H4 to H6 are usually too similar to other sizes so eBook auto TOC generation is usually set to use H1, H2 and H3
Styles are usually

1. Normal
2. Bold
3. Italic
4. Bold Italic

Often superscript or subscript automatically selects small. The existing Font & style is usually used but some systems may only use Courier Normal.

Sometimes strikeout is available.

Note that if you open ANY document on an different PC (that isn't a PDF with embedded fonts) the layout will change unless the destination user has the same paper sizes available and all the fonts you used already installed. That's why there are two kinds of Postscript and PDF (embedded and use local equivalent). So that documents are really identical on different computers and printers.

I used to give courses in 1990s in Wordprocessing and Desktop publishing. I had systems set up to demonstrate the pitfalls of relying on a font when electronically giving a document to someone else.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I use Libre Office myself and it has the same list of fonts as in Word. Certainly Times New Roman, Calibra, Arial and Courier are there, and they're all standard fonts.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

The list of fonts is NOTHING to do with Application. It's whatever fonts your Linux, Windows, Mac has. So Libre Office has different fonts on Windows, OS X and Linux.

The default "out of the box" fonts on Linux will be GPL or Public Domain.
Most of the default fonts on Windows are Microsoft, or licensed by MS.
Most of the default fonts on OSX are Apple, or licensed by Apple or possibly BSD licence.

Later applications you install may add more fonts to your OS (i.e. buying MS Word, Quark Express).

There are source of free fonts. But other than your own local printouts they are pointless! If you are physically printing, converting fonts to images, creating signs you need etc you can use extra fonts. But for eBooks, Websites etc it's largely pointless.

When you send ANY document (other than PDF with embedded fonts for print/display only) to anyone else it almost never includes fonts. Only the names of the fonts and possibly alternatives hints!

Fonts are NOT part of applications or documents*. They are installed on the Operating system, iOS, Kindle OS, Android, OS X, Linux, BSD, RiscOS, Solaris, Windows, QNX etc.

(*except PDFs for view/print only that the creator explicitly added the fonts to)

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm sorry, Ray. I appreciate the work you have gone to but I don't actually understand what you are trying to tell me. I think it is that even though Microsoft have licensed the fonts we can use them in publications without fear of reprisal?

 

[HareBrain]

I think what Ray is saying is that with e-publications, you don't set the exact font at all, the reading device does. So licencing isn't your problem. Which tallies with a how-to book I read on the subject.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Yes, @AnyaKimlin
1) You can set what ever fonts you like in any document, Microsoft doesn't care. Because you are never giving the font to the reader!
2) You can only suggest the font family to use (or the very common three as above). When you create an eBook or give a copy of a document to someone it generally only uses fonts the reader/user already has. So the problem is irrelevant.
3) Older eBook readers and Kindle DXG don't do very many fonts at all, (Courier, Roman etc) and ONLY the basic Roman/Latin alphabet. No Arabic, Cyrillic, Chinese, Thai, Hindi, Japanese, Hebrew etc. So any occasional word needs to be replaced by an image. If your entire book is non-Latin/Roman alphabet then you need to research which reading devices support it. Actual "apps" compatibility depends on language support and fonts of the device usually.

Unless you give someone a specially created PDF or Postscript print file with embedded fonts you are only putting a name of a font, you are never giving a copy of the font so copyright doesn't apply.. So the person getting it will see a different font (or perhaps empty rectangles for non-Roman/Latin/extended characters). They can ONLY see what you pick if they already have the font.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

OK What about if we print it and sell it?

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I think what Ray is saying is that with e-publications, you don't set the exact font at all, the reading device does. So licencing isn't your problem. Which tallies with a how-to book I read on the subject.

Thanks I will report that this evening and stop the flap in the group before it begins.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

OK What about if we print it and sell it?

That's covered by the licences of whoever supplied the font to your PC. It's only a problem if you pirated a font, installed it via control panel etc and printed copies directly.

But that is not how commercial Printing works. A Printing/Publishing will have the font or use a similar one they do have. If you give a Printing company a document they print/electronic typeset using THEIR fonts not the ones on your PC.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Summary:
1. For eBooks You can ONLY use the fonts the eReader device already has

2. For printed paper publishing you can use any font(s) as long as the publisher has them. Typically they have all the common fonts on Linux, OSX and Windows as well as other nicer ones too expensive for PCs. If you pick some weird font and insist on it and they don't have something very similar, then you could be charged an extra £400 to £4000 for the commercial font, that might not be identical. Or they might be able to use your weird font (if the quality is good enough, the file is compatible and it's legally available. Font files can be converted too). Avoid scrappy weird fonts for an entire book. Unless you are self/vanity publishing on paper the publisher decides the font.

3. The actual fonts on your own computer only apply to printing direct from your own computer.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Loads of fonts on OSX, Linux and Windows by default are poorer quality than differently named proper commercial fonts that they are based on. Some are only really for screen use and others for 10pt or larger print size at 600dpi or less rather than the resolution of Commercial printing.