... swearing ... could you wade in on a specific please

[FibonacciEddie]

For SciFi book, written for an generally adult audience; setting the scene, there is:
- no sex
- some violence but not graphic
- one character (the protagonist) swears (a little) a handful of s**t, f**k words (no more than 9 in the whole book)

That's the setting...

Now, in a crucial part of the plot, the protagonist gets a piece of information which blows their mind, and will allow the protagonist to 'get even' with a number of professional rivals

In this circumstance (noting the relative paucity of expletives written before), my initial decision was to write something really quite strong... which the protagonist says out aloud to their sidekick about their rivals
(1) "f*** their stupid faces"
... I then thought that it may be too strong, and went for
(2) "they can shove it up their a***s"

... but I wonder if this one example of over-the-top language would somehow relegate my book into a different ?age-category?

any thoughts

I guess I am just sinking into a manic bout of self-doubt in advance of my first ever public airing of the manuscript

thanks

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Panic ye not. My YA book is full of expletives of many varieties. Provided the context is there, you're fine.

 

[ralphkern]

It has to be consistent with the characters I'd suggest. In real life I'm in a job where it seems we mostly recruit people who are border-line tourettes sufferers (me included) and we drop the F and C bombs, with creative applications of such, on a fairly regular basis! But it has to be consistent with the character. Or possibly for comedic effect (Veeeeeery difficult IMO).

 

[David Evil Overlord]

My teenage super hero protagonist swears. A lot. But she makes sure she's out of her Mum's earshot, because Mum likes to wash dirty mouths out with soap.

But when Mum discovers her daughter is the teenage super hero who's been all over the news for the past few months, guess how many four-letter words Mum says?

Even a character who doesn't approve of swearing can do it under the right circumstances. If your character has just been handed the chance to get even, I say go with the naughty words.

 

[Feidor LaView]

If you don't want to actually having to write down the words, you can try this: let the conversation go on and heat up, and then revert to the narrative voice to explain the all the cussing while the character is doing some action. You can use physical violence to stress the annoyance.

e.g.

McFarland suddenly stood up and threw the book at Raymond's face yelling how much of an argument was that. He said that Jules was a ******* and that for that matter they could shove it up.

Regards,

 

[FibonacciEddie]

many thanks... all good advice (and reassurance)

 

[Venusian Broon]

FE, I'd say write it how you feel then when you come back to re-write you can decide if its too much (or too little!) - don't worry too much about it. If you get an editor that says, 'The language is too blue because I think you should be aiming for the 14-year old market...' you can always change it then.

I got the same worries about my WiP, essentially a Space opera homage to Iain M. Banks 80's Culture novels and Herbert's Dune series, channelled through a bit of PKD and the characters of Trainspotting. It means some of them do, in my mind, swear like particularly sweary troopers.

I cured my own jitters as one of my beta readers is my ever youthful 69 year old dad - so after sending a part up to him for a bit of critique (and warning him that I felt there might be too much swearing) I was surprised he did not mention it at all. When I pressed him on it his response was: "It's nothing compared to what you come across in other books. It didn't really stand out at all." If your own parents are fine with it, I think it's ok for the adult market

I suspect your WiP is even tamer than mine so you shouldn't worry! (I use the f-word 25 times in part 2 alone, along with a C- word bomb and a questionable incident...)

 

[paranoid marvin]

Of course your other option is simply not to use the words themselves, just describe the type of language used.

Bill emitted a number of expletives so strong that even Jake was taken aback , then simply exclaimed 'Got the bastards!'

 

[Chris Guillory]

I wouldn't worry as most here have pointed out. And, as Ralph says, as long as it's in character. In thinking about this just now, this must have been a (somewhat) recent change. Things I've read 90's and before had little or no F-Bombs, but they started showing up more and more since.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

But is it really needed? Just because it's more frequent or "acceptable", does that really make it a good idea? Often it seem gratuitous and grating.

 

[paranoid marvin]

In my opinion there's no need for swearing in books, just like there's no need to mention that anyone goes to the loo, breaks wind or cooks a meal. Unless it means something for the plot, why bother? It dates your work and alienates some readers/age groups. Simply stating that someone swears is enough, then it's up to the reader to imagine the words used; and if a swear word IS used, it has far more impact,

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

But what if your story is set in the loo where the main character cooks onions which unfortunately leads to a flatulance problem, and then is so incensed by this calamity he swears a lot?

Cheers, Greg.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Toilet humour is permissible under the circumstances!

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Panic ye not. My YA book is full of expletives of many varieties. Provided the context is there, you're fine.

Shocked!

FE:

AS I understand it, your worried the over use of 'colourful terms' may detract from the overall sensitivities of the book and it might upset your reader.

f*ck that.

By the time of the tenth edit you might find a better way to put it. the whole chapter might have been cut (more likely to be so if you don't give it the gravitas it deserves).

Then there's an agent - he will advise, recommend, insist you tone it done if he thinks it's out of place or detracts from the story.

Then there's the publisher. the Methodicolonalist press might object to 'tasty language', and if so, are you going to throw away the £10,000 advance for the sake of authorial independence: damn right you aren't. So it will be removed and you will go on to a career of 30+ books where, if it happened, you could put every tenth word as an expletive if you wanted - especially if you sell books.

Write what you feel is right. They'll be time enough for edits, when the dealings done.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

In my opinion there's no need for swearing in books, just like there's no need to mention that anyone goes to the loo, breaks wind or cooks a meal. Unless it means something for the plot, why bother? It dates your work and alienates some readers/age groups. Simply stating that someone swears is enough, then it's up to the reader to imagine the words used; and if a swear word IS used, it has far more impact,

Um, I'd respectfully disagree, Mr Paranoid. In omni or distant third this might be fine but in close third or first if your character would swear I see little way around it. I'm afraid having my 17 yo Belfast protagonist stop and say,

gosh, this isn't good. I swore and turned around

isn't his voice, whereas


(TEIN close your ears)

Arse, he'd gone the wrong way. Now where the f**k did he go?

Is much closer and authentic.

 

[TheEndIsNigh]

Um, I'd respectfully disagree, Mr Paranoid. In omni or distant third this might be fine but in close third or first if your character would swear I see little way around it. I'm afraid having my 17 yo Belfast protagonist stop and say,

gosh, this isn't good. I swore and turned around

isn't his voice, whereas


(TEIN close your ears)

Arse, he'd gone the wrong way. Now where the f**k did he go?

Is much closer and authentic.

Springs: I did close my ears and yet, bu**er me, I was still able to read what you wrote.

And I think the use of the 'g' word would be a bit strong too.

PE: You could post a bit of it (paragraph maybe) it in critiques maybe.

 

[Nick B]

Plenty of swearing in our work, that is reality after all. Mostly in stressful situations such as combat and so on but I think as said above, as long as it is in character then it should be fine. As for violence, well in my opinion violence should not be understated, make it real. Violence is harsh, often fast and chaotic. I always wince when cowboys get shot, hold a hand to their chest/stomach/wherever and slowly fall to the floor like a wooden signpost, with little or no blood and die instantly and quietly.

As Stephen King said, you should right honestly and realistically otherwise you are simply lying to your audience.
Obviously you take your audience into account, if I were writing for younger people then swearing would go away and violence would be toned down. However, I am writing for adults and want them to experience the harshness of violence and the reality of what happens when violence is inflicted upon people, including the emotional impact of seeing (sometimes friends and family) being hurt or killed.

Some people may like a watered down version of events, but i am not one of those people.

 

[paranoid marvin]

Um, I'd respectfully disagree, Mr Paranoid. In omni or distant third this might be fine but in close third or first if your character would swear I see little way around it. I'm afraid having my 17 yo Belfast protagonist stop and say,

gosh, this isn't good. I swore and turned around

isn't his voice, whereas


(TEIN close your ears)

Arse, he'd gone the wrong way. Now where the f**k did he go?

Is much closer and authentic.

Cursing profusely, he realised he'd taken the wrong exit; now where did he go?

Is this really any less realistic? And as I mentioned, the less you actually use swear words the more impact they have if and when they are used.

The other problem you have is the swear words used; they may not be realistic to the age or the location or the time period of the protagonist. Or they may seem dated in 10 years time. For instance a young lad saying 'bloody' now would seem unrealistic, whereas 10-20 years ago this may not have been the case - and who knows what words will be appropriate in 10 years time. Saying that he swore allows the reader to imagine what was said - doesn't have to be spelled out.


Having said that, if it woks for you, then fair enough!

 

[FibonacciEddie]

in the end, I bottled it and removed the more significant swearing... there are still a few... but Irvine Welsh, it ain't

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Cursing profusely, he realised he'd taken the wrong exit; now where did he go?

Is this really any less realistic? And as I mentioned, the less you actually use swear words the more impact they have if and when they are used.

The other problem you have is the swear words used; they may not be realistic to the age or the location or the time period of the protagonist. Or they may seem dated in 10 years time. For instance a young lad saying 'bloody' now would seem unrealistic, whereas 10-20 years ago this may not have been the case - and who knows what words will be appropriate in 10 years time. Saying that he swore allows the reader to imagine what was said - doesn't have to be spelled out.


Having said that, if it woks for you, then fair enough!

Hmmm, but is dating things a problem? Shouldn't they be of their time, sometimes? I'm not sure about a made-up world, so much, but a story set in our world? I'd hate to have to write something so removed from its time it didn't carry the flavour of it. And that includes the swearing.

Also, it should suit the story. The one I'm currently writing hasn't much more than he swore under his breath, my trilogy is pretty sparing, but my one set in Belfast with late-teen protagonists has loads in it. Because no 17 year old lad I've met in Belfast doesn't swear. There is a mostly casual tolerance to swearing - why wouldn't that be reflected in a book set im a time and a place?