World builders - does this look right to you?

sozme

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Ok, I am not going to lie, I am past the point of frustration. I hired a high school astronomy teacher (paid him a small sum) to come up with some realistic data for the habitable planets in my story. I'm trying to figure out some extra variables (listed as unknown in the picture I uploaded), but I was just wondering for those who know the math:

1. Do these variables look correct?
2. Does this seem like a planet that humans could visit?

I've tried playing with some of the calculators that are out there for world building (i.e. on Orionsarm) but they don't seem to really want to randomize new variables for me.
 

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I make no claim to infallibility, but: 8.2 atm of pressure with 37% oxygen (almost twice the O2 content of Earthly air) would probably be poisonous if breathed for more than a couple of hours. (I looked up some stuff about tolerances for oxygen http://www.livescience.com/34128-limits-human-survival.html, and the pressure and O2 concentration you mention is just about on the 2-hour line.)

In addition, that amount of oxygen would be an extreme fire hazard.

I think humans could visit, but it would be a deathworld.

As for correctness or otherwise, well: Apparent luminosity at the planet's position would be about 2.3 times Sol's at Earth (by inverse square law) so the given temperature might be a little low. (This planet gets about 1.5 times the light Venus does.)

Using Kepler's laws, the orbital period (year length) works out at 0.23 years, which is slightly less than 3 Earth months.

Day length is completely arbitrary and dependent on the formation history of the planet. (As is the axial tilt, to a somewhat lesser degree.)
 
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The oxygen would be problematic from a ventilation standpoint, but that could be solved with the appropriate gear.

I suppose the person who I paid to come up with these values did not do a very good job at all. Thank you for your insight.
 
Agree with Mirannan about the oxygen - seems to be a tremendous fire risk.

8 atmospheres seems pretty (damn) dense for an atmosphere for humans, but I'd be the first to admit that I'm not too clued up on that front.

As for the rest of the variables, given the luminosity and the orbit, I get about 90F for the average temp (so not too far off what is you've been given) but as I've said that can vary quite a lot depending on the albedo of the planet, Greenhouse effect considerations etc... Again seems on the (very) high side - I'd imagine this as a hot desert world rather than tropical but I'm sure if you want to make it tropical there will be ways to make it like so.

The year length should be, I think from a rough look at the figures, at about 0.45 of an Earth year, so that's 165 Earth days. Again as before, you can have any day length you want for the planet, so if your planet revolves in say 48 hours then your planet's year will have 80.5 days.

Not really sure what 'Apparent luminosity (at planet)' means.
 
Google Goldilocks zone
A close orbit (due to a small star to have enough heat) obviously is a shorter year. Dis-obviously there is a risk of total extinction for two reasons:
1) A smaller star has bigger more dangerous flares due to less gravity / mass
2) Being closer means the effect of flares is worse.

Probably Apparent luminosity is combination of distance and actual Star luminosity. i.e. for same star, if x2 distance it seems 1/4 as bright. But I forget.

I've worked out feasible planets several times and it's not speedy.
About x3 mass of Star might be as big as you want. heavier stars burn faster and are bluer (more UV). Possibly risking flares below 0.7 Solar masses, I'm not sure.
With a larger planet with more heat retention in atmosphere you can be on outer edge of "goldilocks" zone. A x3 sized planet won't have much more gravity. Also complicated as even the iron core compresses with more mass as does the mantel etc. Without a liquid iron core you have no magenosphere and solar wind would kill any life we understand.
A planet at inner edge of Goldilocks zone needs to be small and an atmosphere poor for heat retention to avoid runaway greenhouse effect (like Venus actually!).
A too small planet looses atmosphere easily (e.g. Mars). A too big planet and atmosphere turns liquid.
 
Google Goldilocks zone
A close orbit (due to a small star to have enough heat) obviously is a shorter year. Dis-obviously there is a risk of total extinction for two reasons:
1) A smaller star has bigger more dangerous flares due to less gravity / mass
2) Being closer means the effect of flares is worse.

Another problem with small stars is that being close in, I think, is that it increases the chances of the planet being tidally locked to have one face fixed facing the star. Haven't done the maths on it (ever!), so I don't know how easy/difficult it is to avoid this fate and where this might be relevant relative to the star. Would make the temperate zone on the planet a thin band between a eternal burning day and a forever freezing night.

A planet on an highly eccentric ellipsoidal orbit near the star might also get quite a lot of internal heating because of the changes in gravitational forces squeezing the planet - highly volcanic perhaps. (Easy to remove though - just make your orbit purely circular!)
 
I've worked out feasible planets several times and it's not speedy.

I know, that's why I paid someone to do it. Turns out he did not do a good job coming up with the correct variables. I am feeling pretty depressed by this...
 
locked to have one face fixed facing the star.
A risk. Though Venus is at inner edge of Goldilocks and not tidally locked. But possibly a higher risk on a much smaller star.

highly eccentric ellipsoidal orbit near the star might also get quite a lot of internal heating
Yes this too. Some of Jupiter's Moons are none too happy, cracking!

@sozme
What sort of thing would you like and I'll crunch some numbers?
I'm building a catalogue of the most important 1100 Homeworlds in my Galactic Civilisation/Culture/Council (I have them named! But obviously you would use a different name and location*), I can let you have a few. Given the sheer number of stars with planets in Milky Way, the more likely combinations. A habitable world that is really a larger than Mars sized moon around a Gas Giant is also maybe possible (e.g. the ewok world). But no-one is absolutely sure. Jupiter is maybe about 1/3 to 1/2 the maximum size of a Gas Giant. At some point if large enough the pressure due to gravity kicks in Fusion and you get a Brown Dwarf. They are searching for Brown Dwarfs so as to find a lower limit for size of a star.

Decide on amount of gravity you want. Less than 0.7G is small planet that loses atmosphere more easily. Mountains will be much higher on smaller planet and less atmospheric pressure. About 1.2G is maybe about x3 Earth's surface area. Unless severe vulcanism, the mountains will not be as high as Earth, but at sea level atmosphere denser. At maybe 16,000 feet you have about 1/2 the pressure on Earth. So you could have a situation where deep valleys on a small planet suit us Tellurian Humans (Dead sea is well below sea level, Some villages in Andes you are altitude sick till you acclimatise to low air pressure, so we can acclimatise to a wide range. 8 Atmospheres is about 250ft underwater without a hard suit (about 80m). I don't think that's good for Humans any length of time. But mountain tops might be only 6 down to 3 atmospheres depending on height. The relationship between Gravity and actual surface area and mass of planet is complicated.

The gravity then sets an approximate size of planet. Day length and axial tilt can be whatever you like without affecting much else, but likely 15hours to 48 hours period is a reasonable idea unless you want mad weather and tides!

Decide on Star mass. Too small and you risk a brown dwarf. You want enough output so the World isn't too close. Too large and it burns fierce with too much UV (also might have a fraction of life). It wants to be a main sequence star (probably, though who knows what life is out there), i.e. burning Hydrogen. We think not a good idea to be near one about to change to Helium or burning Helium. I suggest maybe 0.6 to 3.5 Solar masses (0.6 might be tricky due to flares, 3.5 any Humans are going to wear loads of sunblock cream and it may only have 1/10th of life of our sun, but that is still a lot of time)

Based on Star mass we only have small choice on orbit radius. The inner and outer edge of Goldilocks Zone the atmosphere characteristics and gravity (planet size) are more important. The Star mass and Orbit Radius sets the Orbital period (year). Seasons can be by elliptical orbit or tilt or both. We have an elliptical orbit and it reduces winter cold slightly in north and increases summer (at same time) in South. Not enough that you'd notice. Seasons here are due to tilt. I think one planet in the solar system rotates "wrong direction" and one has 90 degree tilt, so day & night are season length, the rotation not creating day and night!

Other features:
You want a liquid Iron core. Without a magnetosphere you are in trouble with Solar Wind and Cosmic Radiation.
A moon is optional, it makes tides (good), but can increase vulcanism (bad). You can throw in some further out small ones just for cosmetic reasons. You do get daily tides without a moon, due to the star. This is why tides here vary (Moon Sun aligned or in opposition)
A Gas Giant (or three!) further out is VERY good as it dramatically reduces likelihood of comet/asteroid/meteor striking your world and having an ice age for 1000s of years due to the dust.

*Location: Too close to centre of galaxy and risk of a supernova wipe out is high. Jury is out on Galactic rim. You don't have to be actually on a spiral arm, there are almost as many stars not on the arms. There is a higher concentration of brighter stars on Arms, which is why we see them as arms. So any place 10,000 light years to 60,000 light years from Galactic core is probably feasible. We are 30,000 light years from Core.
 
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Start with writing what you want for the planets (existing life, visiting Starship people, events etc). Then that will help you pick the size of planet and star.
You'll want maybe 5 to 12 planets per system, some Gas Giants.
Personally I suspect more than one inhabitable planet per star would be very rare:
two = extremely rare. But Galaxy a big place
Three = possible, maybe. I expect vanishingly rare.
Four and more probably impossible because orbits would be too close
 
Excellent stuff Ray.

You could also link the magnetosphere to the size of the planet - smaller planets are more probable to be 'dried out' with solid Iron cores - but of course it depends at what time you visit the system. Mars had a working liquid core at some point (perhaps at the same time it was getting heavily bombarded by other bits of Solar system in the late heavy bombardment so perhaps not a great time to visit...)

I'd also argue that the best planets must have a degree of vulcanism and working plate tectonics present - a bit goldilocks - too much and it probably would be too unstable and possible candidate for a runaway greenhouse effect to want to stay there, too little and the planet is likely to have fixed itself into a steady state a long time ago and also be likely to be bleak and inhospitable.

The Gas giant as a hoover/deflector shield I see is in fact speculation - it may be correct, but it may not - some work carried out suggested Earth would have been just as safe without a Jupiter: http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2013/02/guardian-jupiter-is-the-gas-giant-earths-protector.html. A bit like the idea that we absolutely needed a moon for stability has been shown to be not true as simulations have got better and better.

Amazed and very impressed that you've a catalogue of 1100 planets on files! Have you also then add nuances (perhaps like dressing them up!), say, with things like the effect of continents and ocean shapes on the habitats? Under certain conditions arrangements of land can stop the ocean conveyor getting oxygen everywhere - and you could end up with loads of shallow stagnant coastal seas stained red with anaerobic bacteria pumping out poisonous hydrogen sulphide gas. Again not a brilliant world to colonise. Or worlds that are in 'snowball Earth' stages...


...I'll stop here. I could go on for a long time. Not even got close to the weirder ideas :)
 
Another common mistake is planet density. If mass is different, it's unlikely the density is the same. Totally obvious for a Gas Giant, but even for rocky mantel with iron core the density varies HUGELY with mass. Amazingly the liquid iron core compresses hugely (we know our core is much denser than liquid iron in a foundry). So smaller planets less dense and larger ones more dense. This is so complicated a relationship that it's best just to specify gravity and vaguely refer to surface area larger or smaller. The Planetary mass is insignificant compared to a star (unless it's a brown dwarf and planet is a Gas Giant!). Google "super earth" and you'll find that the Gravity goes up surprisingly slowly with size, so a 1.2G world may be a lot denser (even if same composition as Earth) but have more than three times surface area (area is 4 * pi * Radius squared anyway).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_area

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet


Gravity is proportional to (mass of planet) / ((radius to surface) squared). For people or spacecraft we can ignore the mass of 2nd body, but not for a Binary star or Gas Giant and Brown Dwarf, or planet with very large moon.
But if mass was x9 the radius would only be x3 (volume is a cube law). Additionally the radius will be LESS than x3 due to compression of the material, density rises. So simplest to only think about the Gravity and vaguely refer to surface being smaller or larger ... surface area is 4 * pi * (Radius squared).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_law_of_universal_gravitation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauss's_law_for_gravity

The compression effect vs mass may not be linear either!
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super-Earth
 
suggested Earth would have been just as safe without a Jupiter: ... A bit like the idea that we absolutely needed a moon for stability has been shown to be not true
However it's moot as Gas Giants are likely a standard feature of any common primary sequence star within useful size limits.
I'm nearly sure a moon is optional. Especially as you do get tides to an extent from the star and rotation.

I have now built up about 1100 names and characteristics of species for about 12. I am gradually defining them as characters discuss or visit the planets. I'm pretending my civilisation knows nearly 2,000 Homeworlds, most with same Starship Jump tech or none at all thus only observed. I pretend this is far side of Galaxy from us and may be anything between 1/4th and 1/10th of Worlds currently with Intelligent tool using life (others may have life or used to have life or used to have a civilisation). Almost by accident these folk discover us. The most dominant Homeworld of their Starship & Telepathy linked 'civilisation' is maybe 80,000 light years away and they had their "steam age" perhaps 5,000 years ago. Due to Telepathy their technologies and cultures started synchronising perhaps 8,000 years ago, they have compact fusion sources and Jump Drive for nearly 4,000 years. But the Galaxy is VERY big and they are very far away. Even a civilization 500 Light years away probably would only be detectable to us if they are stupid about Methane emissions (you will not get much of that normally on an Oxygen / Nitrogen atmosphere world). We wouldn't pick up radio (assuming they used it still).
 
However it's moot as Gas Giants are likely a standard feature of any common primary sequence star within useful size limits.
I'm nearly sure a moon is optional. Especially as you do get tides to an extent from the star and rotation.

I think yes you are probably correct about the Gas giants - but one of the thing that the past decade of planet hunting has taught us is that the there is a much bigger number of really weird systems out there that just don't look like ours. Yes, of course it's a measurement issue - solar systems like ours are much more difficult to detect than ones where you have a massive hot Jupiter orbiting its sun every three days - but if there is a mechanism for having a solar system with no gas giants then they are likely to be out there somewhere, and according to this research possible with earth-like planets (even harder to detect of course...)

EDIT - for possible mechanism I would invoke the fact that possibly 1/3rd of all star systems are binary or multiple - although quite a lot of these would not make a planet's orbit particularly stable, there are configurations, say ones where two stars very closely orbit each other or where they orbit a very long distance away, where it may be possible to have some orbital stability amongst planets that in a goldilocks zone (and where perturbations eventually knock out all other material such as gas giants.) Purely speculative I know, but just to volunteer something concrete!)

Regarding the moon, although tides are important, I was thinking about the axial tilt - the original research in the 70s came to the conclusion that the moon stabilised our axial tilt so that our seasons were regular - when they removed it, their model showed the Earth's axis floating all over the place at random. Later studies have shown that in fact all that is needed is some regular motion in the system - if we didn't have the moon, then Jupiter orbiting would be enough to give the Earth's tilt stability (Damn, now I'm arguing that a Gas giant is in fact important ;). Well life is complicated...)
 
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much bigger number of really weird systems out there that just don't look like ours
Yes, true. But possibly a smaller proportion of those might be able to support life, or terrestrial like visitors. It also seems true that mostly planets are rocks (larger ones perhaps having iron cores) or Gas Giants (sometimes with a rock core) and that very many systems will have both, if single primary sequence star larger than brown dwarf and not too large and blue.

Maybe we will learn more.

Edit:

read BBC

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-29932609

A protoplanetary disc has formed around the young star HL Tau

(Image is false coloured from Radio Telescope Data)​
The clearest ever image of planets forming around an infant star has been taken by the Alma radio telescope.

In a vast disc of dust and gas, dark rings are clearly visible: gaps in the cloud, swept clear by brand new planets in orbit.

The sun-like star at the centre, HL Tau, is less than a million years old and is 450 light years from Earth in the constellation Taurus.
 
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I think yes you are probably correct about the Gas giants - but one of the thing that the past decade of planet hunting has taught us is that the there is a much bigger number of really weird systems out there that just don't look like ours. Yes, of course it's a measurement issue - solar systems like ours are much more difficult to detect than ones where you have a massive hot Jupiter orbiting its sun every three days - but if there is a mechanism for having a solar system with no gas giants then they are likely to be out there somewhere, and according to this research possible with earth-like planets (even harder to detect of course...)

EDIT - for possible mechanism I would invoke the fact that possibly 1/3rd of all star systems are binary or multiple - although quite a lot of these would not make a planet's orbit particularly stable, there are configurations, say ones where two stars very closely orbit each other or where they orbit a very long distance away, where it may be possible to have some orbital stability amongst planets that in a goldilocks zone (and where perturbations eventually knock out all other material such as gas giants.) Purely speculative I know, but just to volunteer something concrete!)

Regarding the moon, although tides are important, I was thinking about the axial tilt - the original research in the 70s came to the conclusion that the moon stabilised our axial tilt so that our seasons were regular - when they removed it, their model showed the Earth's axis floating all over the place at random. Later studies have shown that in fact all that is needed is some regular motion in the system - if we didn't have the moon, then Jupiter orbiting would be enough to give the Earth's tilt stability (Damn, now I'm arguing that a Gas giant is in fact important ;). Well life is complicated...)

Another important function of gas giants (although brown or even red dwarfs would work as well or better) is shielding against asteroidal and cometary impact. Most simulations I've heard about seem to indicate that something Jupiter-mass or greater is quite good at removing errant builders' rubble from a solar system. Which matters, because any more major impacts than we in fact had might have greatly disrupted Earth's evolution.
 
I think before scratching those oxygen figures you might want to look into various mixes already in use that might reduce some of the toxicity from both the effects of too much oxygen and too much nitrogen; there are other chemicals you can put in the mix to offset some of those. I did some research on this a while back to try to figure out both the inflammability problem and bends. The oxygen itself is not so much a hazard as objects that can absorb the oxygen including your body.
 
Heck, I didn't think of that. At eight atmospheres (even with the higher oxygen levels) nitrogen narcosis is a distinct possibility. Incidentally, the bends wouldn't have to be a problem except when leaving this planet. At that point, it certainly would become a problem!
 
Another important function of gas giants (although brown or even red dwarfs would work as well or better) is shielding against asteroidal and cometary impact. Most simulations I've heard about seem to indicate that something Jupiter-mass or greater is quite good at removing errant builders' rubble from a solar system. Which matters, because any more major impacts than we in fact had might have greatly disrupted Earth's evolution.

The article I pulled up in comment #11 in fact suggested that Earth would have have been just the same regarding asteroid + comet strikes if Jupiter had not been there compared to it being present and stated that only one study had (in 1941 I believe) had found that Jupiter acted as a shield. The people working on the simulation (done in 2007 I believe - and therefore a bit more detailed on the old computing front ;)) said that it has only been postulated by others since then.

If you do have links to other work of other groups or peoples simulations on this issue I would be fascinated of course!
 

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