... enabling people to order my self-published book on Waterstones?????

FibonacciEddie

FibonacciEddie

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I meant "my self-published" no "by self-published" ... sorry

ahh...

Amazon just make it all so easy... the others... not so much!

So here's my latest request for insight...please...

I am a debut self-publish author, and I read up a lot about the self-publish world - but obviously not everything. Now... here's the thing.

I have ISBNs etc from Neilson and have registered "everything" on PubWeb
My eBook is live Amazon KDP, (and then Nook, Kobo, etc via IngramSpark)
My Print-on-Demand appears to be 'ready' - IngramSpark say it's "available" (as of last week)

On Amazon, the product is there... but 'Ingram' says it can take a few weeks for all the various connections to be made - but ultimately Amazon (.com and co.uk) seem to be accepting orders for the Paperback... - so I am feigning a relaxed air on that one

However, on Waterstones.co.uk the book is also listed on their web site (I can see it!) but not accepting orders (but i don't know if that is "now", "yet", "ever"???) ... when I did some digging there was a few references to a distribution aggregator - Gardners - but it is all quite opaque to me and I don't understand if
a) I must use Gardners if I ever hope to have physical product sitting on Waterstones' shelves, or
b) I must use Gardner if Waterstones is to be able to fulfill internet orders via their web-site

(Btw - The book is called Emergence - Nick M Lloyd)

If you can help with some information then great - thanks

I don't have fatal delusions of grandeur, I don't expect my book to be stocked by Waterstones... but also if someone tries to buy a copy via Waterstones.co.uk then I love for them to be able to.

any sage words?
 
I have a bit of knowledge of the book trade and Waterstone's - it's really difficult and your best chance is to use a wholesaler like gardners and bertrams and then drum up some support.even then, realistically, a shop will only stock it if they have a reason to believe it has an established market (or big promotion behind it.)

The website listing doesn't form the basis of the shop supply but is a market place like Amazon and separate from the shops - being on that doesn't get you on thd shopfloor but means people could order it as a special order. However, the not available flag indicates there is no trading relationship with the publisher (you) and therefore makes it very difficult to order in-store. You could try contacting Waterstones and asking how to establish a trading relationship (maybe ask from the perspective of a customer and go to the online team, not the shop) and see if that would open up orders. But I'm not sure how that works.

Waterstones work from a central hub and a single self-published book isn't going to get onto that hub which means it isn't available to buyers in the shops. However, a local shop, if you approach them and have a local platform, may agree to trial it, but it's by no means guaranteed and if they do it may well be on a limited sypply basis (the margin you're offering comes into play as does your returns policy.)

Generally, independents are a better place to start than the chains and will often hold launches etc.

But, brutally, your chances of being stocked in Watetstones are low although an individual store is possible dependant on your platform. Even as a special order with no trading relationship, it's very difficult. Sorry.
 
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Thanks for this Springs, but I think we have crossed wires.
I know that I will never be physically stocked in Waterstones (or any big shops) - fine

I just worry about order fulfillment for people who see my product on the Waterstones.co.uk website - is there anything I need to do to ensure fulfillment.

If someone buys the Paperback on Amazon, then Amazon simply send the order to LighteningSource/Ingram ... who in turn print it and send it ...

Will Waterstones do the same thing, if Joe Blogs logs onto Waterstones.co.uk and orders my book?

My assumption is that the Waterstone.co.uk web-site is purely fed by data from Neilson... and so I don't understand if a listing their means they will fulfill an order.

Is this covered by your sentence, "The website listing doesn't form the basis of the shop supply but is a market place like Amazon and separate from the shops - being on that doesn't get you on the shopfloor but means people could order it as a special order."

Which if I read it optimistically, implies that Waterstones.co.uk do the same as Amazon for internet orders.

thanks
 
my underline / bold of "know" was not a reproach to you
it was part of my own healing process ...

:)
 
FibonacciEddie said:
my underline / bold of "know" was not a reproach to you
it was part of my own healing process ...

:)
Click to expand...

No worries, I didn't take it that way (but wanted to cover all the bases in my top post in case others read the thread.)

Why not order one and see what happens? If you try to order it and can't then it indicates it's not possible. But looking at the online site it's allowing orders. I'd risk a tenner and see if I were you, but it seems to be available with no mention of Gardners (who are really a wholesaler) that I can see.
 
I wish I could provide insight, but I'm currently only using Amazon at the moment and trying out their KDP program. Expanding to other websites to put your book is indeed the next step, and I hope things get sorted out. It's true. When I was digging to put my first self published work, I ended up settling with Amazon after a lot of digging as they seemed the simplest out of all. Good luck.
 
I thought some more on this, for what it's worth. i think he difficulty here is that not being on a wholesaler makes it harder to source. When I was a bookstore manager without a listing on a wholesaler data base we wouldn't order (not couldn't, but the extra hoops made it not worth our while).

I think, if it's important to you that ease of ordering is in place it's worth looking at Gardner's or Bertram's, because this will make it easier for any shop to buy it for customer order (many book banks - the inventory lists of available books - are linked to wholesaler listings.)
 
I have no Idea how --LighteningSource/Ingram-- work.
But I use Xlibris and they too are a POD and you might want to verify the process with your POD to be sure you understand how things work. I didn't understand Xlibris at first and it really made a lot of difference.

What Xlibris does is set up the e-book and print editions that you ask for and they sell them direct but they also distribute to Amazon and Barnes an Noble but distribute might be a misnomer here. What they do in fact is send each an electronic copy and each uses their own select printing house to print the alleged print on demands for at least the first run of books. Once those are depleted I'm not sure what happens, but I suspect that if they sell well they will just continue to print them in chunks if they don't do well they may just discontinue the printed editions.

The bottom line is that Xlibris doesn't really supply the printed books to the big online stores, only the right to print them. This was important to me because a change was needed on one book and that did not ripple down until Amazon and B&N sold their stock out and they did keep a small stock. The only way to remove those was to buy them. The E-book updated just fine but the paper editions did not.

Anyway if your POD told you they supply the paper editions to everyone then fine but don't do as I and assume that, because in my case I was wrong.
 
Just an update for the UK indies

I did not need to do anything special to get on the Waterstone on-line store. By going through IngramSpark with a real ISBN I was automatically listed on Waterstones.co.uk web-site. And I have had an order fulfilled (i.e. I ordered it on-line and they posted it to my house)

But the Waterstones rep eventually got back to me to say that if I ever wanted to have physical stock in Waterstones then I needed to have a small-publisher agreement with Gardners.

... more admin to do

one day I will find the time to write some actual words on my next book...

:)
 
March 2015

Just an update for anyone who is interested in the whole Self-Pub adventure.

Recap
Emergence by Nick M Lloyd (i.e., my book by me!)

In Oct/Nov 2014
- I bought real ISBNs from Neilson for the books
- I did Print-On-Demand via IngramSpark
- I did eBook/Kindle via Amazon KDP

In Dec 2014, as I had a real ISBN (i.e. not a Freebie Amazon equivalent from CreateSpace) I was listed in Neilson and so my book automatically showed up on Waterstones.co.uk
As of then I (or anyone) could make real orders for Paperback/Hardback copies via a host of online Bookshops including Waterstones (it is worth noting that almost all sales came from Amazon - I think I got 1 sale via Waterstones.co.uk)

In Jan 2014, my book (Paperback) became unavailable directly from Waterstones.co.uk (still fine on Amazon though) - I was told, sorry but I had to have a suppliers agreement with Gardners

In Feb 2014 - I filled out the forms

In Mar 2014, my book became available again via Waterstones.co.uk

In Mar 2014, I went into my local Waterstones and asked them to "support a local author"
- They agreed and ordered a copy for the bookshelf
- Given I was set up with Gardners (IPC Form) I was set up on the Waterstones system as a "real publisher"
- The Waterstones system made a order of 1 Unit to Gardner; Gardner made an order of 1 Unit direct to IngramSpark

I have been told by everyone that any day now... my book will be in Waterstones "on the shelf"

I will report back...

the moral (so far) is that it is possible to get an Indie Book into Waterstones if you follow the process and persevere!
 
April 2015 update

for anyone who is interested...

My book arrived in Canary Wharf Waterstones this week.

In summary
1) I set up with Gardners (IPC Form)
2) I was set up on the Waterstones system as a "real publisher"
3) Waterstones Canary Wharf (London) ordered a copy
4) The order went direct to IngramSpark
5) It got sent to the Gardner Warehouse
6) And distributed to Waterstones Canary Wharf (London)
 
Eddie's clearly an evil genius. ;)
 
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