The Faux Medieval Fantasy Condundrum

[ZombieWife]

I could not find a thread like this, so I apologize if I am treading well-traveled waters. I have to say, that I'm feeling a bit disheartened lately about my work. Namely that I write medieval-esque epic fantasy. It seems like medieval fantasy is really getting a lot of heat lately. You can't toss a rock without hitting an article about why you shouldn't be writing medieval fantasy. It seems to be on everyone's "DO NOT DO" list.

I see different variations. For example, don't make it exactly like Europe with people who resemble the British, the Spanish, the Norse, the French, etc. Or, don't have knights and horses and castles and monarchies. Or don't do THIS or don't do THAT.

And I get it if people are looking for something fresh.

But, another part of me pushes back because--as a reader--I love medieval'esque fantasy. I can't imagine what my reading world would be like without access to those stories.

I imagine that many of you also love writing medieval fantasy.

For me, my world has a setting that could be considered medieval. There are warriors on horses and armor and swords. I have one country that has a Russian feel (purposely), but the rest are pretty recognizable as what one might expect in an epic fantasy novel that resembles GRRM's world, or Abercrombie's, or Rothfuss'.

I do have elements that make it different. A unique play on gods and magic.

How many of you have bumped up against this? In one way, I see a faux medieval world as being common to epic fantasy (as space is to science-fiction). Not every sci-fi story has space in it, no. Quite a bit does not. But it's almost like someone coming along and saying, "Okay, I've had enough of space-based science fiction. Stop writing this." It seems a setting construct to me, more than anything.

I don't know. Again, kind of going through a mental crisis. Not a big one, but I felt like I could use some good discussion and you kind folks here always have some great things to say. And who knows? It might help someone else here going through the same issues.

Thanks!

 

[paranoid marvin]

If its coming from your publisher or agent then listen to them; anyone else, then write what you're good at. What's trendy today isn't tomorrow and vice versa, but a good story will always be a good story.
There are plenty of authors who have,and who are continuing, to make a good living from writing in this genre and its also (along with historical fiction) one of my favourite genres too .

 

[alchemist]

After 25 years, I've had my fill of reading medievalesque fantasy, but that's just me. Maybe it's as much the story structure as the setting (dark power invades - quest for the artefact/chosen one who will save everyone) but it all got a bit samey for me.
But as PM says, it's still popular. People write it and people read it. I guess it depends on what you want, ZW. If you're mad keen on getting a trad publisher, your story will have to stand out a little, or a lot. If you're writing for yourself, write what you want and love.

 

[Nick B]

All I would say is - write what you love. Maybe a publisher will pick it up. Maybe you'll make 50 grand by self pubbing on Kindle. Maybe, maybe, maybe. But if you write what you love, you can be sure of loving what you write, and that is better than chasing dollar signs in my opinion.

I was speaking to my co-author recently and said that as long as we produce the best story we can, I'd be happy if even a few hundred people read and loved it. We would have touched lives and maybe brought enjoyment and fond memories that will stay with them.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

My thought is that we have a phrase that gets bandie about a bit and argued over a lot - Write what you know. I'd add to that with a new phrase - Write what you love.

If this is what gets you up in the morning. If this is the story that's in your heart, it's the story you should write.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

Good grief! Quellist beat me to it by one minute!

Cheers, Greg.

 

[Nick B]

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Firstly, I think things come round full circle and there is always room in a genre for good writing. I'm not an epic fan, like Alc I stopped reading it years ago as I found it all a bit formulaic. But I've just loved The Name of the Wind.

I write space opera which is, arguably, derivative. I love it. I also write other stuff which is probably more original in terms of the market. I love it, too. I couldn't write either if I didn't love it and no one would want to read it if I did! So write what you enjoy and just write it exquisitely well.

Ps I'm not hearing that agents aren't looking epic, btw.

 

[HareBrain]

I'm not hearing that agents aren't looking epic, btw.

According to @Tirellan here, they very much are.

 

[Hex]

I think people are always looking for great stories and outstanding writing, so, as the others say, write what you love and don't let the rumours put you off.

 

[The Judge]

Agents and publishers are looking for things which will sell. What sells varies from time to time -- which is why we get all the Twilight and Shades of Grey clones which can be (and probably are) badly written dross but will still shift copies at that specific moment because of the hoopla and hype surrounding the original. But what sells consistenly is a gripping story with strong characters that grabs an agent (and the reader) from the first paragraph. Write that and it won't matter if you're treading old ground. You might get more interest if you can combine that with something new and different, but if the story needs to be written with the faux medieval European background, go for it. That's what I'm doing.

And stop reading articles which depress you!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

When people say that they are tired of reading medieval-type fantasy it doesn't necessarily reflect what readers are reading, agents agenting, or publishers publishing -- it doesn't always reflect what the people who are complaining are reading, because they may go out immediately afterward and buy the next volume of ASOIAF.

With my own writing, the medieval fantasy I write out-sells the not-medieval fantasy by tons, even though I probably get more compliments on the other.

I've been observing this kind of thing for about twenty years: the most vocal people do not always represent the people who are buying the most books.

Write the book that you would like to read if it were written by somebody else.

 

[ZombieWife]

Ahh, geesh, thanks to all! I'm not hearing agents or publishers saying this. I'm hearing armchair journalists say it and I'm hearing online 'zine writers saying it. I don't know why it's a trend now to have a poor opinion of medieval fantasy.

I'm glad people shared things they are tired of in medieval-esque settings as well. This is actually very helpful.

 

[Mirannan]

Mediaeval fantasy works, to some extent, because it's set in a time when people really did believe in magic and divine power, and also the idea of chivalry (which I much doubt was often actually followed) is attractive.

One way to shake it up a bit might be to change the time period. Maybe the early Renaissance, or maybe back in Greek or Roman times. The settings are still sorta familiar, but not done to death.

 

[JoanDrake]

Mediaeval fantasy works, to some extent, because it's set in a time when people really did believe in magic and divine power, and also the idea of chivalry (which I much doubt was often actually followed) is attractive.

One way to shake it up a bit might be to change the time period. Maybe the early Renaissance, or maybe back in Greek or Roman times. The settings are still sorta familiar, but not done to death.

One thing I've yet to see (and I fully expect several existing titles of such to be cited in the next post) is a medievalesque fantasy set in the future that is not post apocalyptic. I can hear the loud cries of "waitaminit" right now but it's medieval ESQUE, not medieval, right? and there are many interesting things you could insert. Compound bows, ceramic edged swords made of titanium, suits of chobham armor, come to mind immediately, even how such a world comes about might be interesting
.
Very few writers are skilled enough to write good stuff that they themselves don't like. They do try, which accounts for 90 percent of the really bad stories on the market now, IMO

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

My WIP is a post Roman dark ages fantasy which could probably be identified as medievalesque since it's full of swords and magic. The sequel (my Nanowrimo offering) follows the same characters with the same weapons and mindset into the future.

Hopefully by the time the first one is finished to my satisfaction (estimating 2054 at the current rate) publishers will be crying out for this stuff.

 

[Dan Jones]

I'm not sure about the idea of epic suddenly being not en vogue - if anything things like the success of TV shows like GoT and Vikings, as well as softer stuff like Atlantis, has increased public appetites for it.

I was browsing the top 40 paperbacks in a popular bookstore the other day and there must have been around half a dozen fantasy novels up there - obviously couldn't tell if they were all epic or not, but I wouldn't be discouraged.

I'm writing epic as well, and part of my world is that medievalesque setting, so I'm perfectly aware of the pitfalls - I think you can get away with it if you give the world a twist, something unique - what that is, is up to you.

 

[Brian G Turner]

You can't toss a rock without hitting an article about why you shouldn't be writing medieval fantasy.

The "faux-mediaeval" market is alive and well - the best selling authors in fantasy prove this and IMO epic fantasy is experiencing something of a resurgence.

But we're no longer seeing

dark power invades - quest for the artefact/chosen one who will save everyone

as the norm.

But what I'm taking from the general argument is a complaint about lack of diversity - which makes it difficult for some readers to engage.

However, some of these same commentators seem to be demanding themselves to be personally written into the stories they read.

Additionally, some commentators complain about badly done cultural appropriation - but I think a lot of writers are just as guilty at this in their handling of Western mediaeval history. I say it over and over again - swords and wenches do not make a setting mediaeval!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

[QUOTE="Brian Turner, post: 1866987, member: 1

However, some of these same commentators seem to be demanding themselves to be personally written into the stories they read.
[/QUOTE]

In what way?

And, sorry, but the idea that epic fantasy is no longer treading the dark one/chosen one trope just isn't borne out by what I'm seeing:

The broken empire
Mistborn
Name of the wind

I've read these three relatively recently (partly because they did seema bit different from the norm) and all of them deal with a chosen one of some kind. They might be playing with that trope and world, but it still boils down to much the same thing. I think the disengagement, for me, comes from the lack of surprises when i read epic.

The thing is, though, we could be talking about any genre and say the same thing. Space opera is full of tropes, so is urban fantasy etc. Etc. Some readers just dig settings and stories more than others and epic is no different in that.

 

[Hex]

I like epic in all its faux medievalness. I'm not much of a fan of the sort of stuff that seems popular just now with swords and guts and whatnot (is that epic?) but I do like a big baddie now and again (especially in Daniel Abrahams books, where the big baddie isn't really anyone much and may not even be a baddie, really).

I think the whole fuss over cultural appropriation etc has been incredibly damaging. Sensible and thoughtful advocates for diversity (like my lovely agent, Jessica Negron) only really ask that writers think about things and research them but more than anything, they want to see more diversity in sff, and especially YA. The more extreme -- and far louder -- voices wanted to crush anyone who dared to try anything different, or anyone who didn't.