Describing someone as a teen in historical fantasy?

[Brian G Turner]

I'm a little uncertain on how to make implicit the general age of a group of people in a mediaeval fantasy.

The aim is to ensure they are seen as "teenagers", and I've used the word "youths" to describe them.

However, I'm concerned that this is far too subtle, and that some people - including myself - might imagine a youth to be anyone up to their early twenties.

I looked up the word origin for "teen", and most uses are modern:
http://etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=teen&searchmode=none

Confusingly, "teen" is described as originating in the 19thC, but the entry under "teens" suggests that "teen" already exists as a word in the 1600's.

I'm tempted to describe these people as "in their teen-age years" to be as explicit as possible, but then I have the additional problems of the word sounding too potentially modern, throwing the reader from the prose.

Yet if I'm not clear about ages, I'm concerned that the characters mentioned will be envisioned as older than they actually are, which may be a bigger problem in their development arcs.

Anyone any thoughts?

 

[Hex]

How about something that indicates their age about their appearance? Not quite "he/she was on the cusp of manhood/womanhood" but teenagers often have muscle still to build, or look coltish, or still look like children every so often, or aren't as hairy as fully grown men, or, etc etc.

 

[The Judge]

I most definitely wouldn't use the word "teens" as a noun in the sense of "A bunch of teens lounged by the gate" but you could at a pinch say "The boys were still in their teens" (though for me "their teen years" would feel less modern.) And although "youth" is fine, somehow using it for several of them also has a connotation of modernity (as well as, for me, mischief-makers bordering on offenders charged with criminal damage and worse -- but I obviously spent too much time listening to cases in magistrates' courts...).

Personally I'd avoid both teen/s and youth/s as far as possible and give approx ages instead, since apart from anything else both a 13yo and a 19yo are "teens" but I'd expect them to act and appear very differently. This is how I'm doing it eg I refer to "a boy of about sixteen" and then give some description of him (including the word "coltish," dammit). So if there is a group of them something like "Several boys stood around, not one of them older than thirteen" or "The girls were older than he'd first thought - fifteen or sixteen, he reckoned" or "The dozen in front of him ranged in age from a tiny girl who couldn't be more than twelve to a hulking great brute of a lad who had to be nineteen if he was a day."

 

[Brian G Turner]

The trouble I have is the need to summarise the age of a group of significant characters - there's no time to start guessing ages. Hence why I wondered about the following as potentially acceptable:

"in their teen-age years"

 

[The Judge]

I wouldn't use it myself, no. If someone can assess a group of people to see they are all teenaged, I see no problem with him also guessing they all look to be around eg fifteen or sixteen -- it surely doesn't take any more time to guess sixteen than assess teenaged, does it? If in fact they -- or any of them-- are actually significantly younger or older than the guessed age, you can make the correction when the POV character has more time to assess them as individuals. Meantime, I'd use the words boys/lads/girls/lasses to show they're not adult -- "youths" does tend to be used only of males and suggests those at the upper end of the teenaged years, but I'd prefer that to "teen-age" myself.

How old are they anyway?

 

[goldhawk]

I'm a little uncertain on how to make implicit the general age of a group of people in a mediaeval fantasy.

I would call them apprentices. Before 1900, most boys started working at about age 12.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Breasts and beards.

Say they're too young to shave or, for the ladies, still flat-chested (obviously some women always stay that way, and some men barely need to shave, but as a general statement it'll get their approximate age across well).

 

[Toby Frost]

My problem is that "teenager" doesn't really exist for me as a concept before about 1950. "Young men" or "older boys" is about the only thing I can think of that doesn't involve a longer description. Also, would anyone of teenage years have the chance to do teenage things in earlier societies? I suspect not. There doesn't seem to have been much of a concept of an intermediary stage between "child" and "adult", especially not the sulking, rebelling and hanging around stage we have now.

Generally, I don't find fantasy about teenagers convincing, because they often act exactly like modern kids ("But I don't wanna have to fight the orcs!"). I quite like "apprentices" though: in real life, apprentices had a reputation for being rowdy, so that might work. "Youths" is ok, but it still hints at the Young Offender courts a bit. I think you might just have to use a few lines of description, or drop in enough hints about them being sullen and spotty.

 

[The Judge]

Apprentices were certainly rowdy, but as a description it can only properly apply to boys/youths who actually were apprenticed to a trade, which would discount the vast majority of lads between the ages of 13 and 19 who were eg farm labourers, but would also include young men in their 20s, so well past their teens.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

"youths" does tend to be used only of males and suggests those at the upper end of the teenaged years, but I'd prefer that to "teen-age" myself.

Teenage or Teen-age?
"Youths" here usually is used to refer to teenagers (of any sex) up to no good.

Teenage seems to be a mid-twentith century invention.

 

[Abernovo]

The trouble I have is the need to summarise the age of a group of significant characters - there's no time to start guessing ages.

Why not? Assuming you're coming from a military/knight perspective, one of the first things you should do is assess your surroundings in 'a single glance'*. The breakdown of ages/threats/friend-foe-innocent bystander becomes automatic.** That it takes more time to get those words on the page doesn't mean it takes more time to do it. Reading speed is much faster than writing speed, so most readers will absorb the words. Making the scene immediate doesn't mean taking out all the description.

Personally, I'd go with TJ's suggestion. Make them individuals, in a group, rather than just a formless group of youths, a term which immediately makes me think of the Daily Malice, sorry Mail.

*A cliche, and not always possible, but you do it all the time, if you drive. If you don't do that, I'm not getting into a car with you. Do an observation exercise: walk through a shopping centre, find a place to sit and write out a description of three people, or groups, from memory. You'll be surprised how easy it is to note age, clothes, faces, posture.

**I know it does, because it's what I had to do, working in wild environments, tracking animals and keeping myself safe. I took in loads of information, and my brain sifted it.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm inthe physical description camp. A group of lads (or ye-olde-equivalent) not yet old enough to shave gets me to where you need...

 

[Brian G Turner]

I see no problem with him also guessing they all look to be around eg fifteen or sixteen

That's the problem - it's a mixed sex group of six people of different ages, anywhere between 15-19. Stopping the narrative to attempt to guess individual ages would be too artificial.

Also, because this is mediaeval fantasy, the difference in actual age between any of these will be irrelevant (ie, 16 and 18 would not have the significance they have in modern Britain).

Hence wondering at a safe and all-encompassing term that can work for the period.

 

[Foxbat]

Shakespeare had no problem simply using the word 'boys'
To kill the boys with the luggage! It's expressly against the rules of combat. (Henry V)
They were old enough to march with an army but still too young to fight - which could be a fair age range.

 

[Hex]

Something like "boys old enough to believe themselves ready for battle"? or whatever works in the context you're in (and whatever your POV character would think) and whatnot.

 

[The Judge]

That's the problem - it's a mixed sex group of six people of different ages, anywhere between 15-19. Stopping the narrative to attempt to guess individual ages would be too artificial.

I still don't see it as a problem to be honest, not least as you're talking of character development so presumably we'll get to know them in detail so you've plenty of time to put the record straight, and if you think the physical and emotional differences between 16 and 18 aren't great, it's irrelevant if you give them the one age or the other on first sight eg "Four lads stepped out, the oldest only seventeen; behind them, a couple of girls, perhaps a year or two younger." At this point it doesn't matter that the POV character has got the ages wrong -- we've got an idea of what the group comprises and you can move on with the plot if things are happening quickly. (If things aren't happening quickly then I'd question why you think it's stopping the narrative to give some idea of these children in a couple of short sentences.) Then when the POV character sits down with them you can have something like "He realised he was wrong -- the skinny boy was older than he'd though, perhaps nineteen" or "was younger than he'd imagined, no more than fifteen." or they can give their ages when they give their names.

If you still don't think there's time for a very brief note of possible ages, then fall back onto "a half-dozen adolescents"

mid-15c., "youth, young man," from Middle French adolescent (15c.)

though for me that's not nearly as helpful as giving a better idea of their ages -- it's a question of being specific against being general, and I'd always favour the former wherever possible.

 

[RobPrescott]

I've found from beta readers that while the etymology dictionary tells me the word teenager has actually been around for a while (in some form or other, most of the alternatives given above) to a reader it comes across as an unusually modern word that breaks their immersion.

How about injecting some of the personality of the observer into the description (assuming a character-fixed POV, that is)? If described as a bunch of kids, which you could off-set the child-implication through their actions or some physical description, it could bring across a dismissive attitude from an older character? Or if the POV character isn't so different in age, give a comparative description ("couldn't have been much younger than me")?

 

[Sapheron]

Compare them to someone or something else. If the old fellow they meet, remember, think about, whatever, is described as sixty, then say the eldest of the characters is barely a third his age. That implies the eldest is heading for twenty, and being the eldest, the others are younger. If none are then specifically depicted as children then the age range you're after should, hopefully, be assumed.

 

[JoanDrake]

I note that none of you are using the old page (7-14) squire (14-21) knight business, so either that's not so or it's unsuitable for some other reason.

It's my understanding that medieval people had some problem with even the concept of childhood, past the toddler stage, and definitely very little recognition of adolescence. If this is so you might want to hold off on identifying their ages very definitely and do so as you develop their characters, as a genuine notion of the people surrounding them would just view them as somewhat shorter adults anyway.

 

[ShotokanXL]

Why not do what I'm sure you've seen in other fantasy works and describe their ages in terms of the summers or winters that they've seen? Still lets the reader know how old they are but avoids modern sounding terminology.