The Flash S114 Fallout

[Jesse412]

I thought the nuclear explosion looked pretty good for TV. I like the initial conflict between Ronnie and Stein and how they eventually work well together. I laughed at the references to Terminator and Back to the Future as well as Barry delivering pizza. Coast City reference! Clancy Brown is great as General Eiling. I was hoping Firestorm would do more than just throw fire. I guess it's still early in regard to his abilities though. I like that Barry is determined to change the past. I loved seeing Wells unmask as the Reverse Flash and him handing over General Eiling to Grodd was awesome.

 

[J-Sun]

Poor Clancy (unless he wants it that way): been in a million things and, as far as I've seen, only played a non-evil guy once.

I think it's a fantastic existential situation they've stuck Barry in and I was surprised at what an "above standard TV" level the time travel trope was being handled.

I wonder if Barry's thought this all the way through, though. Fictionally, it's no problem at all - it'd actually be kind of weird if he had thought it through because this is his mom (not to mention saving his dad from years in jail). But, if he succeeds, there will be no relationship with Joe or Iris. No Flash. No friendship with Caitlin and Cisco. It'll be kind of like committing suicide (or mass murder in a weird way): everything that makes Barry Barry will be gone (and everything that makes Joe and Iris and Caitlin and Cisco who they are would be changed, too - those versions would cease to exist according to which handwaving of time travel you used. This is why I hate time travel - it's just wrong and evil and nonsensical. But it's a hell of a thing to think about and the show has a pretty good setup for it.

As far as the episode considered by itself, it was pretty good but I do wonder why the Wonder Non-Twins "have" to leave beyond writer fiat (and I'm glad they did: I was thinking early on in the episode that I liked them being on this episode but that they would screw up the dynamics as more regular characters). I mean, part of the thing was the Prof realizing he'd abandoned his wife and how he was going to be more dedicated to her and then he literally leaves her. And I don't think going to hang out with a known associate of the Prof's is going to keep them "one step ahead" of any pursuers.

And, speaking of, why isn't Eiling dead yet? He's so dangerous and evil and murderous and they just keep punching him. And, again, how long until he's back? He just got carted off so you know he's not dead yet though, by all rights he should be expected to be. But it's TV!

Anyway - glitches aside, pretty good and this is a genuinely likable show.

 

[ctg]

Fictionally, it's no problem at all - it'd actually be kind of weird if he had thought it through because this is his mom (not to mention saving his dad from years in jail). But, if he succeeds, there will be no relationship with Joe or Iris. No Flash. No friendship with Caitlin and Cisco. It'll be kind of like committing suicide (or mass murder in a weird way): everything that makes Barry Barry will be gone (and everything that makes Joe and Iris and Caitlin and Cisco who they are would be changed, too - those versions would cease to exist according to which handwaving of time travel you used. This is why I hate time travel - it's just wrong and evil and nonsensical. But it's a hell of a thing to think about and the show has a pretty good setup for it.

I read you but you're wrong, because going back in time and reversing certain settings doesn't mean that you'll somehow disappear from the existence. That's Dr Who bollocks. You can go back in time and do changes but when you return, those chances might have caused unseen consequencies but ... Barry will still Barry and he will have his powers. The time doesn't make you disappear. And it's true that you can kill yourself in the past, or do it to your parents, or even on that venerable grandfather but you still have to live through that loop. Time-loop that is.

One, where you can alter events just like you can in real life, if you're really good or work for a secret government agency.

Sorry about that tinfoil but I couldn't resist adding a bit of sarcasm in the line. But what I mean should be clear because you cannot make things to disappear because that is against the physical principles. The time doesn't disappear. The world certain isn't going anywhere, and even if it did, the universe would still be there. And who says that Barry cannot bring her mum to future and hand her to his dad, her husband as if no time passed between the kidnap and point t0.

In this context, it would go very well with the existing time-line, and it wouldn't alter anything. Only just she would know that she's now a time-traveller. Just like Flash and his reverse counterpart. Dr Wells cannot be all that evil and he might in this time-line reverse the fight to do the right thing and work besides the Flash.

Just like he is doing now. No?

Anyway - glitches aside, pretty good and this is a genuinely likable show.

I agree.

PS. I didn't want to venture deeper into the quantum world because talking about parallel timelines can become very boring extremely quickly.

 

[J-Sun]

I read you but you're wrong, because going back in time and reversing certain settings doesn't mean that you'll somehow disappear from the existence.

"That's not right. It's not even wrong." -- Wolfgang Pauli. Saying I'm "wrong" here is like saying I'm wrong because I'm positing that the toothfairy was 90 pounds and you're positing 100. You're taking me too literally, too: I didn't mean he'd physically completely disappear. I meant that who he was would cease to be in a psychological/experiential sense.

And it's true that you can kill yourself in the past,

Ditto - just metaphors - not concerned with the literal aspect.

In this context, it would go very well with the existing time-line, and it wouldn't alter anything. Only just she would know that she's now a time-traveller.

So where's her dead body go (or come from, depending on how you look at it)? Speaking of living through things: we know she's already very dead. If he saves her, there's no body - that has (okay, not disappeared, but) been replaced with a living one.

This is why time travel is stupid: it's pointless to even talk about in a scientific way (though scientists try) and only makes any kind of sense philosophically where there's really no right or wrong. Yes, you can avoid a lot of problems in a many-worlds "splitting" framework but I philosophically despise that theory because it makes all actions and life pointless: great, so Barry goes back in time to try save his mom and he succeeds an infinite number of times and fails an infinite number of times and we'll watch one of those times. Whee.

Anyway - even if we don't agree on this, at least we agree on the main thing.

 

[K.S. Crooks]

If you have not seen the DC Justice League: The Flashpoint Paradox I highly suggest you pick up the trade paperback comics or watch the animated movie. This is what causes the New 52, which was the re-launch of all of DC comics and characters. I don't know how much the tv show will follow this, but it can provide some insight for those who want a peak.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Was really surprised that anyone survived that explosion, and disappointed that what was originally sold as a "thermonuclear explosion" was down-graded to an explosion with no harmful consequences whatsoever.

The relationship-conflict between Ronnie and Stein was interesting, though. A bit farcical with Iris asking after Ronnie, though, but interesting that she's being directed to investigate STAR Labs.

And finally - confirmation that Dr Wells is the Yellow Flash. At least in this time period. Which raises the question as to who killed Barry's mum in the first place, if Dr Wells wasn't there.

Good to see Barry agonise over the fact that he shouldn't be able to change time. Please, scriptwriters, keep it that way and avoid creating silly paradoxical plotlines that only a young child could accept!