Help! Need geeky help. Is this plausible?

[AnyaKimlin]

Why I decided to write a genius character who is great with maths I will never know. I'm not bad at doing equations and coped reasonably well with the odd physics module at university level but really that was twenty years ago. I hope this makes sense:

World: It is a world at the centre of the universe. Encased in a dome of a special ore. Their technology is similar to 2015 but there are differences. One major one is this special ore that is available only in one place on the planet surface. It supplies electricity in a relatively green manner.

There are also books from Earth circulating around the world. In the country my MC is in they have been banned and are called "Brain Rotters". My MC is terrified his father will find him reading his copy of Sherlock as it carries a hefty prison sentence.

Characters: MC is a big geeky kid who's talented at engineering and has helped design a new mobile phone. He's not too shabby at science in general.

MC's father: Was a respected astronomer before he had to give it up to become king.

Story point: My MC has been arrested and is in a cell. His father visits him. He gives him a lump of the ore and then writes some equations on the cell wall he thinks will help my MC figure things out.

As it involve electricity and they have books from Earth could I put up something like Ampere's Circuital Law or Faraday's Law of Induction and leave my character to it? I can do some work with them but I don't think I'm up to designing an equation from scratch.

 

[J Riff]

Eek = emm, sea squares? Something like that. No idea. Wait for professional help.

 

[psychotick]

Hi,

I wouldn't give your readers equations as you run the risk of either boring them or confusing them.

However my larger concern would be that I can't work out whether this is meant to be sci fi or fantasy. Steam punk maybe? I think you're genre hopping.

Cheers, Greg.

 

[jastius]

What did you want to do with the ore? Building something would involve an apparatus. Does he need the ore itself?
For most complicated equations you require a scientific calculator or a log table and slide rule or some such.
Most math is done in program on a computer with written proofs. You could try a Fractalization equation.

I mean I don't think the kid figuring out the resistance capacity of the ore is going to do very much. They would have that from when they started using the stuff. Or the relative magnetic field of an infinite wire of a finite diameter at a steady known current (amperes law) ..
And while the formulation of faradays constant from faradays formula.. (The amount of electric charge liberated from a mole of electrons during a electrochemical reaction.) (Faraday, also called faraday constant, unit of electricity, used in the study of electrochemical reactions and equal to the amount of electric charge that liberates one gram equivalent of any ion from an electrolytic solution. It was named in honour of the 19th-century English scientist Michael Faraday and equals 9.64853399 × 104 coulombs, or 6.02214179 × 1023 electrons (see also Avogadro’s law).from Encyclopedia Britannica..) Is interesting.. It is A constant. Tables again..

Anyways maybe he wants something like. A nernst equation.. To figure out the energy dispursion rates or some such..
Like this stuff ..

About.com About Education Chemistry
Chemistry Glossary Definition of Nernst Equation
By Anne Marie Helmenstine,
Definition: Equation relating the voltage of a chemical cell to its standard cell potential and to the concentrations of the reactants and product .
The Nernst equation is:
E cell = E 0 cell - (RT/nF) x log 10 Q
where
E cell is the cell potential
E 0 cell refers to standard cell potential
R is the gas constant
T is the absolute temperature
n is the number of moles of electrons transferred by the cell's reaction
F is Faraday's constant
Q is the reaction quotient , where
Q = [C] c ·[D] d / [A] a · b
where A, B, C, and D are chemical species; and a, b, c, and d are coefficients in the balanced equation:
a A + b B → c C + d D
Example: At 25 °C, the Nernst Equation can be expressed as:
E cell = E 0 cell - 0.0591/n x log 10 Q

And you can use it in something like this..

http://chemistry.about.com/od/worke...trochemical-Cell-Reaction-Example-Problem.htm

Or you can figure out the energy potential of the ore with something like this..

http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistryglossary/g/gibbs-free-energy-definition.htm

But I think you are trying to have the kid determine something like the electromagnetic biofield charge change of the planet after the introduction of the use of your imaginary element..

 

[Venusian Broon]

Story point: My MC has been arrested and is in a cell. His father visits him. He gives him a lump of the ore and then writes some equations on the cell wall he thinks will help my MC figure things out.

What do you want the MC to figure out?

 

[Brian G Turner]

He gives him a lump of the ore and then writes some equations on the cell wall

Wouldn't there be guards who might be suspicious at a prisoner being provided with a power source, and a wall of formulae?

 

[Mr Orange]

What do you want the MC to figure out?

what venusian broon said

and also, how do you encase a world in a dome?

and if his dad is king, surely he can get him out of jail?

 

[Ray McCarthy]

He gives him a lump of the ore and then writes some equations on the cell wall he thinks will help my MC figure things out

Leave it as vague as that.

I wouldn't give your readers equations as you run the risk of either boring them or confusing them.

Yes.

The MC can of course use the wall as "blackboard" / "Notebook". There are lots of interesting equations, but each one would only be a small part of a design process.

So, I'd not say what equation it is or how it helps.

Exactly what is MC supposed to do with a piece of ore without a lab? Equipment, reagents, possibly electricity, water, heat etc is needed to do anything with ore. The only exception I can think of is a crystal radio, a wire resting on the ore creates a PN junction, which then is an RF rectifier or diode to turn AM from an aerial, earth and tuned circuit into audio for very high impedance headphones (typically 4,000 Ohms by 2 x 2000 in series, or a crystal/piezoelectric earpiece).

Ampere's Circuital Law or Faraday's Law of Induction

The MC would know those if he'd helped design a Mobile, unless it's Jonny Ives "designing" which is zero engineering, only cosmetics copied from Dieter Rams case designs for Braun 1950s and 1960s white electronics stuff.

But your dome, ore and electricity source are fantasy, so don't spoil it by trying to insert text of an equation, real or imaginary.

most complicated equations you require a scientific calculator or a log table and slide rule or some such.

To be accurate, perhaps. I'd say many. Plenty of designs I rough out approximations.

Most math is done in program on a computer with written proofs.

Most isn't. Only certain proofs are done like that, and Mathematicians don't like that approach as the program might have an error. Proofs though are probably of little interest to MC.

Engineering and applied science assumes the equations are true.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Most math is done in program on a computer with written proofs.

Sorry Jastius , but I must +1 this comment from Ray - although it depends on what you mean by mathematics (sorry I'm British).

Mathematics as a subject - if you suggested they used computers, 99 times of 100 you'd get a slap
Applied Maths as in solving real physical problems - yes the use of computers is reasonably high as we are usually dealing with equations that can not be solved analytically so they have to be approximated in computers.

 

[jastius]

Thank you guys! I knew I was going to get the ruler on the hand but Anya's post had sat for three hours.. And I just thought I would stuff something into the thread anyways . Ray, I knew you and Venusian Broom would sort it! Been thinking about the "dome".. Too..
Thank you for sorting it Ray!

[Ray said] "To be accurate, perhaps. I'd say many. Plenty of designs I rough out approximations.
Most isn't. Only certain proofs are done like that, and Mathematicians don't like that approach as the program might have an error. Proofs though are probably of little interest to MC.
Engineering and applied science assumes the equations are true." [/QUOTE]

My dad was about five times an engineer. (Mech,fluid,aero,civil,stationary,electric) And he would draft out the toy he was trying to ka-jigger and have the little stack of books and basic calculator and slide rule to figure it out with. One thing I know is that the idea of what to do came first with him. And then the drafting then the number crunching. First you figure out what it does then you do something with it. (And my dad wasn't too impressed by people's reliance upon calculators without understanding the concepts behind the calculations, not after he went through my math book and found out the supposed correct answers used by the publisher were off by rounding up and down during the equation working out.. And the only way to get the teacher approved answer was by using the exact same calculator used by the teacher! He said you can't ask to be accurate to the fifth or eighth decimal place if it had already been rounded off by formula shorter then that by both the book and the calculator... He said if telemetry projections like that had been in use at the cape launch that flag would have been planted on Neptune by the time they sorted where the fractional dispersement had veered them off course.!!) Anyways..
Okay.. The dome.. Nanotube crystalized carbon in fractal layers about seven times harder then diamond?
Would act as a atmosphere containment system. And a solar energy collector and disperser. And a giant lens.. And a magnification of radio waves.. You wouldn't need a satellite system for communication relay.. No curvature of the planet to worry about because your signals keep bouncing back down... So that ore is not an energy source. It can't be. No radiation or particle excitation. It has to be a battery. Absorbs what the shield makes.. Transfers it when tapped. I am thinking it luminesces in the dark. Or something else physical that you can't see or know until you get a chunk of the actual rock to play with.. Sonics maybe? Singing rocks? Maybe its bits are attracted to humans like that tree fluff in avatar. Maybe the king is leaving his son in jail to protect him from something or someone until he understands the big secret that daddy has sworn not to tell.. But can show? Because daddy needs his son to do something that dad's hands are tied to do. And junior can juryrig the tech he has with him .. (Cell phone? Fitness monitor watch? Good for temperature reads and pulse.. ). Would a rock pulse? Anya is the rock alive? Sentient? Or perhaps the planet is sentient... And the rock is kind of planetary dandruff? And why would they need to talk now? Maybe the humans botched things up again and wounded the living planet.. And the shield was constructed as a type of bandage.. And the planet is taking them to a new home, a new planet. So the self contained energy system and so on.. The astro physicist would know this.. Hence he became king.

Or something or other..

 

[AnyaKimlin]

EDIT: Jastius's last post.

Your dad reminds me of a more modern version of my granddad - he was self taught (left school at 14) but could work out anything if it had an equation. He could design anything with an equation it felt like anyway and he always had his bits of equipment. He's my inspiration for Angus's father. This scene is his last and I wanted it to be about what he loves most. Although he used my gran as his calculator (days before scientific ones) at time - her ability to remember numbers and do sums was amazing. She could work out columns of numbers faster than we could type them into calculators. I often wondered what my grandparents could have been if they had had better opportunities at the start.

And it's given me loads of ideas about how to tackle the scene.

OK that's me sorted - I might pop the scene up in critiques when I'm done.

I've decided these are the first time he's seen equations produced by Earth's scientists. And that's what he's working out.

Hi,

I wouldn't give your readers equations as you run the risk of either boring them or confusing them.

However my larger concern would be that I can't work out whether this is meant to be sci fi or fantasy. Steam punk maybe? I think you're genre hopping.

Just wanted to include what his father wrote and maybe some workings later but I actually had an idea of just including the start of equation last night.

It's squarely epic fantasy just not mediaeval. Not steam punk because the technology fits with the time. My MC is wearing jeans. It is far magic than science. However, I am self publishing it so it doesn't matter as much.

What did you want to do with the ore?

He's never seen it before and nobody needed to do much to work out how the ore works - it's a bit more magical than coal. Also they have not being using Earth text books because they have been banned -- so the equations may not look the same. Actually you've given me an idea. It has a very specific formation and crystal structure. To get light from it it just needs to be rubbed.

Anyways maybe he wants something like. A nernst equation.. To figure out the energy dispursion rates or some such..
Like this stuff ..
.

Thank you this will work perfectly. It has been so long since I did anything and I've had a brain eating (not literally) illness since.

What do you want the MC to figure out?

Eventually what the ore is and how it works. People know it works and they know how to make it work but they don't know why. But I'm not getting specific about how he does it -- just the

Wouldn't there be guards who might be suspicious at a prisoner being provided with a power source, and a wall of formulae?

The king is giving him the ore and the equation. No guard is going to question a man who can have him put to death.

what venusian broon said

and also, how do you encase a world in a dome?

and if his dad is king, surely he can get him out of jail?

The dome was Chris P's idea. This fantasy so my simple answer is their god did it.

And his dad put him in jail in the first place. So yes he can get him out but he's not going to.

Leave it as vague as that.

You're right - I'm going to just include the start. And some comments.

The MC would know those if he'd helped design a Mobile, unless it's Jonny Ives "designing" which is zero engineering, only cosmetics copied from Dieter Rams case designs for Braun 1950s and 1960s white electronics stuff.

No he really did help design it.

But your dome, ore and electricity source are fantasy, so don't spoil it by trying to insert text of an equation, real or imaginary.

They are fantasy but I think it would be unrealistic to expect people in a modern society not to try and figure out how it works or why it works. They are not going to completelly succeed.

Engineering and applied science assumes the equations are true.

In this sentence you've worked a lot out for me thanks. Basically because it is another planet and the equations have been come up with independently, they would be different. So his dad is getting him to work out these new ones.

Mathematics as a subject - if you suggested they used computers, 99 times of 100 you'd get a slap
Applied Maths as in solving real physical problems - yes the use of computers is reasonably high as we are usually dealing with equations that can not be solved analytically so they have to be approximated in computers.

That's part of why I wanted to use older equations.

 

[jastius]

It has to do with communication doesn't it Anya? That's why the cell phone... Once he figures out the rock isn't what they say it is he needs to figure out what it is really.. Then he figures out that it can communicate.. But they need a way to.. he needs a speaker to talk with the sentiant bits..
Its like Horton hears a who but in reverse.. Cool..

But why would dad want the son to give the planet a voice? So everyone can talk with the planet? An uber net? The planet is their god like being.. Joins everyone on the planet communications uberwebnet.
Because the planet needs a voice..
So sonny boy needs equations to disprove... The old ones.. Not the new stuff that have been manufactored to go with the planets systems.. Now they have to for some reason separate the before and now tech.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

It has to do with communication doesn't it Anya? That's why the cell phone... Once he figures out the rock isn't what they say it he needs a speaker to talk with the sentiant bits..
Its like Horton hears a who but in reverse.. Cool..

Hmm I was going to confiscate his mobile. That's why his dad uses the wall Angus says there is no way he can spend hours with nothing to do. However I could bring a less-big (fairy is a derogatory term) in as a speaker - that's a good idea or introduce the elderly mentor character. I can't see a cell wall being an issue to my elderly mentor type character.

He figures the reality of the rock out later with the father of a friend. It's sort of encased brain cell and by using it they are killing the god that they are inside -- giving him a brain tumour. But at this point he's just beginning the journey in this scene.

 

[Avid Scifi Fan]

The special ore is called "copper" and it magically generates electricity when you pass a magnet by it!

In all seriousness, if you're going for something special it could be a crystal like material with a piezoelectric properties or radioactive like material. Are they planning to hook it up like a battery or processit in some way?

I recommend staying away from equations if you're borderlining on fantasy. Just says "he sqrawls out a complex equation..." but don't actually provide it. This would show the readers he has an idea of what he's doing.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm not borderlining on fantasy it is fantasy

It's called Shujing chemical symbol Sj - it's a crystal that gives off energy and works like a battery. I'm working on it but my brain has been sluggish since I asked the question.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Anything that "gives off energy" is using up internal energy and changing. Otherwise the most basic laws of physics are violated.

Rochelle salt is piezoelectric. Superseded by synthetic polymers (Electret microphone capsules) and synthetic ceramics (gas lighters that make a spark without a battery or flint). The Electricity comes from the physical energy to squeeze it.

Batteries use up stored chemical energy, chemicals react. Rechargeable ones use reversible reactions due to the reaction products able to work as electrodes and not becoming spikes or powder.

Nuclear sources (some can be very small) are using the radiation from fission to heat a thermocouple for electricity (Satellites, Mars Rover) or make steam to drive a turbine to drive a motor in reverse to make electricity.

An alternator or dynamo (generator) is simply a motor driven by something (hand crank, belt off car engine, water/wind/steam turbine or paddle wheel). A motor can have the magnet replaced by a second winding that is fixed and powered by the generator or power. This allows regulation and allows larger motors or generators. If it's a generator then residual magnetism in the metal frame / cores (from last use) starts the electric generation. This is why it's possible to reverse the polarity of a DC dynamo that uses no magnets by temporary connection of a battery to the field coil. I used to change cars from Positive Earth to Negative in early 1970s by this method (you had to swap the battery terminals and it was so a negative earth Radio could be fitted.)

So unless your crystals transmute to other elements they are used up about as fast as any battery the same size. If they are transmuting, then you can't turn them off, they are doing it all the time and in x hours / days / years depending on half life. it's half used up and probably give cancer to anyone breathing the dust plus severe radiation burns to anyone handling it.

http://xkcd.com/965/

So it's Magic / Fantasy.

Only elements have a Chemical symbol, everything else is a formula of the symbols
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_element
Above about 85 I think, they are all radioactive, that means they heat up and give off energy as they change into less massive elements. Iron is the middle. Hydrogen and more massive up to iron can be fused (Fusion) to give more massive elements releasing energy. Above Iron, elements give off energy when split to give less massive elements (Fission).

All the elements that don't naturally exist (or exist too short a time) have been made artificially in Hadron Colliders, linear accelerators, Cyclotrons etc up to 118. Some are very short lived indeed.

The Americium in a smoke detector is an artificially made Element!
(There isn't very much of it).

Gas Mantles used to use Thorium. It's a natural radioactive element.

Glow in the dark phosphors used to be energised by Radium, another natural radioactive element. Today they work by stored energy from Ultraviolet light during the day, though some watches use Tritium, a radioactive isotope of Hydrogen (in even heavier water than Deuterium based Heavy Water). It decays to Helium and gives out electrons, like a TV screen's Electron gun, so relatively safe.

Table showing origins:

Periodic table showing the cosmogenic origin of each element in the Big Bang, or in large or small stars. Small stars can produce certain elements up to sulfur, by the alpha process. Supernovae are needed to produce "heavy" elements (those beyond iron and nickel) rapidly by neutron buildup, in the r-process. Certain large stars slowly produce other elements heavier than iron, in the s-process; these may then be blown into space in the off-gassing of planetary nebulae.

Plutonium is not just radioactive, it's poisonous. Polonium is maybe worse, I'm not sure if you die from radiation or poisoning or both. Small nuclear batteries tend to use Plutonium made in a power station from Uranium.

We are all Star Children. Made of Star Stuff?

There are 3 generations of Stars known
I : The most recent
II : Older ones
III: Dawn of Time
These have more massive elements the more recent they are.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

It's a cell part of the god's body. And there is energy stored within. It's more magic than science but my characters don't believe in magic -- yet. Which is why they are trying to work out how it works. Basically they are using up their god's life source which is a problem because they are inside him. As things stand they believe it to be an element but there are various barriers to them studying it.

Part of why I am writing first person is that it only needs to be from their understanding. And at present in the story there is a lot of myth and lack of understanding.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

using up their god's life source which is a problem because they are inside him

That sounds terminal.
He needs a good Prophet otherwise it's going to implode in a bad way.

Hopefully I have given you some interesting "dead ends" (perhaps literally) for your characters to investigate before they discover they are barking up the wrong tree!

Maybe they study an Earth Chemistry book and realise what they have can't fit their materialistic framework, just before it all implodes on them. Of course the smart alec isn't believed that they are destroying their "universe" by using up the "manna" from this ore/crystal / god cell.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

That sounds terminal.
He needs a good Prophet otherwise it's going to implode in a bad way.

Hopefully I have given you some interesting "dead ends" (perhaps literally) for your characters to investigate before they discover they are barking up the wrong tree!

You have -- the whole thread has been very useful.

Angus is going to work it out when he realises what it's made up of. And he opens up the library. My world's "devil" wants to kill the god and showed them the ore.