POV versus Author's Voice

[FibonacciEddie]

My new WIP has three "big" characters.

Working in 3rd Person Close

Each of the three gets Chapters/Scenes in which the story is set from their POV.

There are obvious parts of the narrative that would change for a particular POV
- which aspects of a scene are noticed (i.e., Character A notices people; Character B notices weapons; Character C notices smells)
- how other character's behaviours are interpreted or described
Char A (The guard, resplendent in his uniform marched in immediately)
Char B (Within moments, the town enforcer arrived, weapons brandished)

There are other bits which wouldn't change
(mostly the case - not always) Any dialogue should be created to reflect the character speaking it.

My question is... am I over thinking... how far do people go?

Could you have a Char POV in which adjectives were mostly omitted to help reinforce the mechanical nature of the Character in POV?
Could you have a Char POV in which grammar was deliberately incorrect when in Narrative/Descriptive mode to show that the Character was ill-educated?

I worry that by over-thinking the POV for each Chapter that my overall pitch/rhythm/words will not feel consistent and the book may become hard to read.

any thoughts?

(or recommended reading?)

thanks

FibE

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I switch pov a lot. They all share my style, of course, but they have their own tics. I have a scene where my mc merges into his son's thoughts and it always surprises me how the voice changes. The thing is, I don't think I could do it deliberately - it would be too forced. I, um....

(Looks sheepish)

Hear the chapter in their voice. Actually, as if they were saying it. And their dialogue lines. All I do is capture that.

Am I alone?

Am I mad?

Is there no hope for me?

 

[Juliana]

Hear the chapter in their voice. Actually, as if they were saying it.

I do that too, springs. The voice changes quite a bit depending on whose POV the chapter is from.

 

[FibonacciEddie]

there is always hope .. and when that fails ... that's when the Gin and Chocolate arrive ... or my latest craze ... CocoPops - as a child I was never allowed them - now as an adult ... no-one to stop me ... (given I don't yet have a cardiologist)

I suspect that I am in the camp of looking too forced at the moment...

Your advice is good (paraphrasing) - get into the head of the POV and tell it as you see it from there
(did you say that)... that's what I heard

 

[Jo Zebedee]

That's exactly what I said. Of course.

 

[Brian G Turner]

My question is... am I over thinking

I don't think so at all. However, do ensure you read around your intended genre to see how other writers might treat POV use differently. George R R martin tends to use the same style with each character, Robert Jordan varies them a little, and Joe Abercrombie sometimes writes in entirely character voice.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The author's voice is made up of so many different factors, I believe it is possible to keep it and still write in each viewpoint character's voice.

If you over-think it, though, you risk losing your voice and the character's voice, too, if it all becomes too mechanical.

Also, if you do write a scene in a POV character's voice, make sure they are someone whose perspectives enhance the story, not just carry it forward (you need them to do both), and who has a voice that is sufficiently expressive and compelling to keep readers interested. Otherwise, you run the risk they will skip over that character's scenes to get to the scenes and characters who are more interesting.

 

[Juliana]

Otherwise, you run the risk they will skip over that character's scenes to get to the scenes and chara

Yes. *cough* GRRM *cough* I'm often tempted to skip over POV bits that I din't like as much as others when reading multiple POV.

 

[ratsy]

This is something I think about because I've mainly been writing short stories, which for the most part, have one main POV throughout. In my book I have a MC POV and I have two other POV's as well, and just added a small POV part for a new character. The MC is a woman, one of the others is her new boyfriend/police detective, and the other is a criminal, carrying his dead buddies body around in his trunk because his ghost is linked to it...They are all quite different characters, but I try to make the feel of each of them different than the other. I am trying to keep my style consistent but the thoughts and feelings are going to be much different between Rose and Fred. Her BF Roger has more of a generic feel too him so I'm trying to work on that more.

You do have to be aware of it because you do want a different feel for each of them IMO. Especially with Close 3rd...we want to feel the character. But at the same time, once you get into the characters heads, the writing should become clearer to each character. At least that's what is happening with me.

 

[Venusian Broon]

Currently I'm reading Stephen King's The Shining and although I've got a few reservations about it (I've actually stumbled over it a bit with all the head-hopping he does, and it does seem pretty exposition-y and clunky to me*) he goes pretty far when in the PoV of the 5 year old boy Danny.

Tiny example from near the start:

"Danny...you okay,doc?"
"Yeah. I'm okay." He went to his daddy and buried his face in Daddy's sheepskin-lined denim jacket and hugged him tight tight tight. Jack hugged back, slightly bewildered.

It's sort of full of lines like that and I do think he does get across a very intelligent and wordy 5 year old!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From when I last read any King, but then that was at least over 20 years ago and The Shining is one of his earliest, I suppose.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

He doesn't head hop, actually (being pedantic here, but he's excellent at what he does.) he just shifts his third pov within scenes - as most genres, except sff, do without any issues - and does so well. Louis de Bernieres, who I quoted in another thread earlier, does it too. I'd love to be able to but think
I'm too used to one pov at a time now. And, sadly, I think it's a loss.

 

[Venusian Broon]

he just shifts his third pov within scenes.

??? That's what I've always assumed head hopping was as in described here: http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2014/04/30/head-hopping-fiction-writing/

Randy sez: Let’s define terms. “Head-hopping” is the practice of switching point-of-view characters within a single scene.

In The Shining I've come across wot Randy sez

For example the Hallorann chapter clearly starts from Wendy's PoV but then it has to switch to Danny's (because he's being shined to by the chef and we get his reaction to getting a telepathic message, something Wendy's PoV could never know about.)

However as always I am more than willing to be educated if I am totally wrong, Springs

 

[Jo Zebedee]

??? That's what I've always assumed head hopping was as in described here: http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2014/04/30/head-hopping-fiction-writing/

Randy sez: Let’s define terms. “Head-hopping” is the practice of switching point-of-view characters within a single scene.

In The Shining I've come across wot Randy sez

For example the Hallorann chapter clearly starts from Wendy's PoV but then it has to switch to Danny's (because he's being shined to by the chef and we get his reaction to getting a telepathic message, something Wendy's PoV could never know about.)

However as always I am more than willing to be educated if I am totally wrong, Springs

Headhopping is when it's intrusive. Honestly, read outside sff and you'll see shifting pov in scenes loads. One of my first posts on AW said exactly what you said above and I was thoroughly put in my place by non-genre writers. Shifting pov can be over a single line, a paragraph, a scene, a chapter. Provided it's clear who you've shifted to, and the story flows it's fine. Mind you, you'd struggle to get a debut sff book published in that style (and for terrible shifting third, have a look at Sherrilyn Kenyon,,,)

 

[Venusian Broon]

Headhopping is when it's intrusive. Honestly, read outside sff and you'll see shifting pov in scenes loads. One of my first posts on AW said exactly what you said above and I was thoroughly put in my place by non-genre writers. Shifting pov can be over a single line, a paragraph, a scene, a chapter. Provided it's clear who you've shifted to, and the story flows it's fine. Mind you, you'd struggle to get a debut sff book published in that style (and for terrible shifting third, have a look at Sherrilyn Kenyon,,,)

Cheers!

So just shifting PoV then. Not as catchy a name. (and we should stop hijacking this thread)

However I still find it a bit jarring at times in this book - SK might have mastered in his later works, but I did wander into a few lines in The Shining not that impressed with the shift.

 

[HareBrain]

Headhopping is when it's intrusive.

Except that "intrusive" is highly subjective. What one reader finds intrusive, another might not bat an eyelid at. (Ooh look, I've just patronisingly defined "subjective". Go me.)

When what seems to be headhopping works, as in the Stephen King books I've read, is where the author establishes himself as a character in his own right, an overarching storytelling presence. That gives him the license to dip in and out of his characters' heads within the same scene, but you're always aware (even if only subconsciously aware, if that isn't an oxymoron) that you're being led from one head to another, that a single point-of-view (the narrator's) is in control. So you're not really shifting POV, because the POV remains the narrator's, and maybe that's how we reconcile this with what Randy sez.

Where there's no narrator presence, and the POV jumps straight from one character to another with nothing in between, no guided transition, that's headhopping (and it is mostly intrusive).

 

[Venusian Broon]

Except that "intrusive" is highly subjective. What one reader finds intrusive, another might not bat an eyelid at. (Ooh look, I've just patronisingly defined "subjective". Go me.)

When what seems to be headhopping works, as in the Stephen King books I've read, is where the author establishes ....

Cheers HB, now I'm heading to the land of confusion and eh?

(Plus I've found another published author who says in his blog that Stephen King headhops)

Far too late to really make sense of it all and I've had a pretty full-on day with other really serious things. I will ponder on this tomorrow!

Sorry @FibonacciEddie - anyway to reiterate with regards to:

Could you have a Char POV in which adjectives were mostly omitted to help reinforce the mechanical nature of the Character in POV?
Could you have a Char POV in which grammar was deliberately incorrect when in Narrative/Descriptive mode to show that the Character was ill-educated?

Then I do believe that SK does a great job in giving what we might a five year old child's PoV might be with a different style to the adults - as an example to look into perhaps.

EDIT - Other ones that have spring to mind (but might not be your cup of tea) are Iain M. Banks' Feersum Endjinn (C'mon you've got to love Bascule) and Irvin Welsh's Trainspotting - because believe it or not some of it is written in the Queen's English.

 

[HareBrain]

Cheers HB, now I'm heading to the land of confusion and eh?

Good, I was getting lonely here by myself.

 

[ratsy]

I would call that head hopping...how can one guy doing it well be called something other than one guy doing it poorly be called different things?

I never used to notice King doing it until I started writing and then I was taken aback a bit

 

[MWagner]

Over the last 50 years or so, readers have come to expect much tighter and 'hotter' character point of views. This is especially true of genre fiction. To a modern reader, the traditional omniscient POV seems cold and detached. And if it tries to be omniscient while still hot, it can be confusing. That's probably why the convention of POV chapters has become commonplace.

As for character voice, I'll second the advice that you want to make each voice distinct, but not at the cost of over-thinking your writing. The voices should flow, just as your writing in general should flow. On his blog, Joe Abercrombie has explained that he goes back in his second or third draft and sharpens the voices of this characters to make them distinct. That seems a better approach than being very deliberate and self-conscious about it while writing the first draft.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I often "cast" my characters with a famous actor who is versatile and has a large presence on YouTube and then I stalk them round YouTube and the internet. Watching them over and over again gives me body language and verbal quirks without needing to put too much thought into it when I write.

To be honest I think simply getting to know your character and their oddities, reactions etc is the easiest way to discover "their voice". In some ways their body language has as much to do with their voice as the way they say things.

Having said that if omniscient works for you then go for it. I personally find it the most difficult to write because it is my voice and not the character's voice.