please help me with a "comma dilemma"

[FibonacciEddie]

(I know this should go it the 'grammar' folder, but that place is always so quiet....)
(That said, Mods - feel free to move me)

this is supposed to be indirect thought

this is how I want to write it...
Jackson slowed as he worked. Giant mice were all but unheard of, impossible he had been told by the local shaman.

but the actual meaning in long hand is
Jackson slowed as he worked. Giant mice were all but unheard. The local shaman had told him they were impossible.

thanks for any input!

 

[thaddeus6th]

Comma after 'impossible', I think.

That said, not sure all but unheard of/impossible fit together (one's rare, the other never happens).

 

[HareBrain]

Though I guess he might know the shaman to be wrong.

I agree with the comma after "impossible", but I'd like a colon (or dash) before:

Jackson slowed as he worked. Giant mice were all but unheard of: impossible, he'd been told by the local shaman.

(And I think contracting "he had" to "he'd" makes it noticeably smoother.)

 

[The Judge]

Yep, I'd go with HB's suggestion, though I like my long dashes not colons. Or to make it less passive, "impossible, said the local shaman."

 

[Ray McCarthy]

unheard of/impossible

Saying same thing twice for emphasis can work. Psalms do it all the time. I think both can mean "never happens"

 

[The Judge]

But "unheard of" doesn't mean something is impossible, just that no one has ever reported it -- it's unheard of for me to go to a gym or join a dance class, but it doesn't mean it's impossible for me to go, just improbable in the extreme. And "all but unheard of" means it must have been noticed at least once so patently it is possible.

I don't see it as a problem for the sentence, however, since the shaman would probably explain the sightings as being errors of judgement/perception/drunkenness, so I'm happy that the two parts are compatible and the shaman needn't be wrong. (Though I'm prepared to bet he is and the giant mice will emerge pretty soon if they haven't already.)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Of course the next day the Shaman is dead ... with gnaw marks from R.O.U.S.
There probably isn't a six fingered man involved.

People don't use speech exactly with its literal meanings or else why do so many people say "very unique"?

 

[FibonacciEddie]

Firstly, thanks to HareBrain - I like that sentence construction

Secondly, my sense is that in conversation mistakes of logic may be made if they are attributed to the speaker

in that spirit, FibE says, "thank-you to all of you for giving 110% to this discussion!"

many thanks

 

[thaddeus6th]

'All but unheard of' isn't the same as 'unheard of'. I agree impossible/unheard of are very similar. Adding 'all but' means something has occurred of that nature.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

HB's got it sorted out already (though I'd prefer the dashes in this case), but I'd like to point out that it makes no difference whether "all but unheard of" and "impossible" mean the same thing or (in truth) not. The guy is saying that, to him, they are all but unheard of, and in fact the shaman told him they were impossible. They're rare, as far as I know, and someone even told me they're impossible.

 

[tinkerdan]

The whole works for me because there are rumors of large rodents though the shamans would be last to support those rumors.

As for commas and such I think the comma could be overlooked after impossible much the same as when and or but begins a statement. But perhaps a stronger pause prior such as a semi-colon instead of a comma. But that's mostly stylistic in nature. It looks fine as it is.

Giant mice were all but unheard of, impossible he had been told by the local shaman.

There actually are two sentences here, compounded by a couple stretches of grammar rules.

What it really says is:
Giant mice were all but unheard of. ( some might object to ending the sentence that way.)

The local shaman had told him impossible. (basically what it says; but it has passivity that has made it look confusing enough that it isn't as easily recognizable as a whole sentence by itself.) Probably works better as:: The local shaman said impossible.

Giant mice were all but unheard of; the local shaman had said impossible.

 

[mgilmour]

Of course the next day the Shaman is dead ... with gnaw marks from R.O.U.S.
There probably isn't a six fingered man involved.

LOL! What more can I say!

 

[Jennifer L. Carson]

If I were copyediting this, I would do it thusly:

Jackson slowed as he worked. Giant mice were all but unheard of--impossible, he had been told by the local shaman.

I think it could be done different ways, but I would strongly lean toward this one above.

With commas "impossible" becomes parenthetical, which means it can be removed and the meaning should remain pretty much the same, but in this case, I suspect it changes:
Giant mice were all but unheard of he had been told by the local shaman. I think you are saying the shaman said "impossible" not the whole sentiment (though I could be wrong).

But "unheard of" doesn't mean something is impossible,

Because of what The Judge said, I would not use a colon, because I was trained in editing class the you should be able to replace a colon with "that is" and have it make sense. I'm a nut for chocolate: light chocolate, dark chocolate, nutty chocolate, any kind of chocolate. It kind of equates the two sides. But as The Judge says, almost and impossible don't equate.

I'm not saying any of these are wrong, just that the way I interpret it what I think you are saying would best be represented with the em dash.