Dialogue woes

[Kylara]

I can write half decent dialogue. I can write nice tags. I can write nice action to go with the dialogue. But I am having difficulty making it all work properly together.

So, for example a bit from my current WiP being used as assessment piece that I am fixing up, cutting from and adding to and generally using university time to write
I have cut the beginning of first sentence and end of last out as unnecessary to dialogue issue.

but Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him.

“There are trees over there Elyx, why not try there.” Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

Now having issues with the lack of tagging (I just don't do much of it here) making it confusing as to who is speaking. I am unsure if that is because it should be like this:

but Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him,

“There are trees over there Elyx, why not try there.” Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

or like this:

but Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him.

“There are trees over there Elyx, why not try there.”

Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

or some other sort of thing. Now give me someone else's writing and I can pretty much sort it, but my own? Not a chance.


Same problem, a little earlier:

Zander brought his own saddle over to his tent and set it down on its side.

“Hot. It’s been a long day and I’m chilled to the ruddy bone here. Make the damn fire.” Elyx fumbled through the saddlebags

Should be Zander doing the dialogue and Elyx fumbling after hearing it. To me it seems horribly muddled and I have no idea why. I have been looking at this forever and just not getting anywhere with any of it. So any help would be greatly appreciated. I have many other dodgy instances, but I am hoping once this one is straight I can sort those out. (I also have a dodgy almost splice but not quite splice which I am debating over, so dialogue being fixed would let me mull over that problem nicely)

 

[HareBrain]

Why not add the dialogue to the end of the line about Zander?

but Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him. “There are trees over there Elyx, why not try there.”

Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

Dialogue doesn't have to start on a new line.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Yes, if Elyx is not the one speaking, you don't want his actions following on the same line as the dialogue. But you can put the dialogue on the same line following actions belonging to the one who is speaking. As HB has it.

I would punctuate it as "There are trees over there, Elyx -- why not try there?"

Is it from another person's POV? The "unseen dirty look" must have been seen by someone.

 

[The Judge]

My rule of thumb, don't have the non-speaker acting in the same paragraph immediately after dialogue spoken by someone else unless there is intervening attribution. ie if there's dialogue and no attribution, the action following in the same para must be the speaker, and anyone else has to go in a new para.

So here "Elyx threw him..." should be in a separate paragraph from Zander's dialogue. Ditto "Elyx fumbled..."

Same para = Zander dialogue, Zander action, or as HB says, Zander action, Zander dialogue. As an alternative you could have Zander dialogue, "said Zander" and then Elyx acting in the same para, but usually it's best to separate them.

And while I'm here...

but Zander still sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him. “There are trees over there, Elyx. Why not try there?”

Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

NB "was sitting" or just "sat" never "was sat" unless it's character voice, and ignorant character at that...



EDIT: just noticed I missed the comma before Elyx!

 

[Kylara]

Haha, hadn't noticed that rogue was TJ! Been looking and faffing too much with this section I think. (supposed to be sat - I have changed the sentence about quite a bit so probably was sitting, changed to sat, but the was not killed off!)

Thanks for the help - I knew I was forgetting something obvious - paragraph attribution. Greatly appreciated! Also probably go with the em dash - personal preference

The PoV is Elyx at this point - semi-close third, much closer than I usually do anyway. Is a mix of close third PoV and omni PoV throughout the whole novel. Only a few close third sections though as I need the over arching view, with a few closer bits to get into particular characters - lots of different areas of them too...

Thanks for the help been a while since I did actual dialogue as opposed to outlining it script style and ignoring it!

 

[J Riff]

Right, this happens, and you can usually just keep the dialogue on the same line. No problem starting new paragraphs though, esp. if it's signifigant dialogue. Easier to read too.

 

[Ursa major]

I would have thought that in this case, moving the action** sentence in front of the dialogue changes the meaning. If*** Elyx spoke the words before pulling a face and walking off, the sentence describing those actions should come after the dialogue and there would be nothing wrong with that.


** - There seems to be at least one circumstance when an "action" not following the dialogue can be mentioned afterwards:

"You're wrong." Graham hadn't looked up, but remained focused on the knife he was sharpening. Bravado? Or didn't he care?​

*** - I know Elyx didn't say them, but if s/he had....

 

[tinkerdan]

What I would do with them is::

“There are trees over there Elyx." Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him."Why not try there."

Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees.

::And then::

“Hot." Zander brought his own saddle over to his tent and set it down on its side. "It’s been a long day and I’m chilled to the ruddy bone here. Make the damn fire.”

Elyx fumbled through the saddlebags

:: but that's because someone once mentioned that I always put the dialogue at the end of the paragraph after all the action and minimize it. And now I always overcompensate and do as I have above.

 

[Heranion]

I'm already very happy I've joined this forum. My two cents: Go with the flow and edit the ratio and positioning of dialogue in a second draft. It'll be easier to underline the iffy bits when you're flowing through them. You'll more easily sense the cohesion of the paragraphs as a reader than as a writer.

 

[J. L. Holtz]

I think part of the confusion you may be having is the verb tense is somewhat awkward, in the first clause (past/present),

Zander was sat / leaning against the saddle,

and in the second clause (present tense) pretending to not see him.

but Zander was sat leaning against his saddle, pretending to not see him.

“There are trees over there Elyx, why not try there.” Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off towards the trees,

Also, best to look at the emotional relationship and the apparent conflict between these two characters, and whether you want to convey it. Is Zander annoyed with him? Does he not want Elyx near him, are they bunking in for the night? Why is Elyx trying to hide his feelings? And how far would he go to make that happen? Go for the emotion. and so on,

Example: Exhausted, Zander dropped his saddle on the ground claiming his spot for the night, sitting down the weariness drew in his mind as he sank into the the comfort of the well worn-leather, and his thoughts were elsewhere than on his traveling companion, the one forced upon him and who was drawing near. "Elix, why don't try over there, by those trees."

Trudging off towards, Elix stomped his feet, yet again, showing his frustration towards Zander.

Kylara, this might not be a great example because it is based on my assumptions of the situation by the two lines, but hopefully it may help.

Okay, chaio
J. L. Holtz

 

[mgilmour]

Here's my two bits worth.....

Zander leaned across his saddle on the ground, pretending to not see him. “There are trees over there Elyx. Why not try there?”

Elyx threw him an unseen dirty look and trudged off into the dark towards where Zander had pointed.