Reading outside your genre

[Toby Frost]

This follows from a discussion elsewhere about some fantasy authors not actually reading much fantasy, and preferring to read books about history.

How much reading should you do in the area in which you’re writing? I am writing fantasy, but I don’t read much of it – at least, it’s not the main area that I read. My response to a lot of fantasy, especially the epic sort, is that it’s not bad but not worth the time it would take me to plough through all those pages to find out who gets to the end of the last sequel. I also find that fantasy often doesn’t quite “work” for me. Instead, when I write fantasy, I find myself looking to noir and spy fiction, for a sense of character and intrigue, and to history for inspiration for events. Sometimes, I trawl through paintings from the time that I’m trying to evoke (a vague sort of Renaissance-to-1650 era), looking for images, or scraps of information, that will prod my mind in the right direction.

Now, I have read enough fantasy and enough reviews to know roughly what sells and what can and can’t be done (although what reviewers say and what people buy are very different things). And I don’t regard fantasy as a second-rate genre (although in earlier decades, it was much weaker). But I’m very conscious of avoiding the problem steampunk has: that if you’re writing based only on works in the same sub-genre, you’ll end up introducing nothing new and just shuffling the same small pack of cards. Occasionally, you stumble upon something outside the area that’s really useful: a fair chunk of the last comedy I wrote was inspired by an Indian automaton called Tippoo’s Tiger.

Does anyone else find this?

 

[Maieius]

Since I can remember, I've always loved to read fantasy (fairly certain Harry Potter set that up for me) and it's why I write it: because I love it. Usually, anything set in the "real world" doesn't often interest me, but I never gave that much of a chance when I was young and I've been doing that more now (for example, I'm finally sitting down and reading Pride and Prejudice). I forgot how much I loved reading until this past year after being distracted for a few years with a job and university and I decided to read into the classics that I never got round to when I was younger. These books are still popular for a reason.

I've decided to start with Pride and Prejudice because, not only did I enjoy the film prompting me to pick up the book, but as a love story, it's teaching me romance in novels, something I'd not read before (at least not to an adult level), and romance is a subplot in my fantasy novel. It's a fairly big one too, so I need to get it right. Not only that but the book teaches me many new fancy words

I do prefer to avoid fantasy novels when I'm writing. I like to read outside of the genre in order to fully grasp the concept of a subplot I might be struggling with, such as the romance or a thriller to observe how the suspense is built. As long as it teaches me something that won't cause me to subconsciously copy. I think that can be quite easy if you're focused on writing and plotting, which is partially why I avoid fantasy.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

It depends on my mood. My leaning is towards sff but I also read crime, chick-lit, literary, general, the back of cereal boxes. Whatever's to hand! But my own sff isn't exactly conventional, so that probably reflects a lot of the outside influences.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I find myself nodding in agreement with your post Toby. I'm probably really quite like that as well.

I do think there is a balance to aim for. Yes you have to know your genre and really know it pretty well, but the broader the reading range and interests outside genre the writer has, it is much more likelier that that author's work will be 'healthier' and much more interesting IMO.

I've been doing a lot of reading of quite a lot of Space Opera, to get a taste of where my attempt fits in, and I've come across quite a few novels that are blatantly derivative of tried and tested SF tropes, ("Will [Colonial] Space marines versus nasty aliens ever disappear!"*). However they are alright in their own way, in the same sense that to me, a ready meal or take out occasionally hits the spot once in a blue moon - probably not that good for you... but convenient, quick and easy to dispose of. The standout books that I remember are the ones that come in and do something different - blur the boundaries of the sub-genre/genre and try something new. But then that's just me.

Are there in fact any really big authors that have stated they have only read their genre or patch? I'd be surprised.



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* Alright, probably never

 

[HareBrain]

an Indian automaton called Tippoo’s Tiger.

I've seen that. If I'm ever in London during an apocalypse, the first thing I'll do is rush to the V&A, break open the case and crank the handle to see what happens.

It seems fairly certain that to the extent that a story can be original, that originality has to come from outside the genre. Given that no one has time to read everything, especially writers, you have to strike a balance between knowing what's going on in your genre, and reading widely enough outside it so you have a chance of injecting something fresh into it (though this can also come from other sources, such as one's own life).

I'd rather authors sourced more of their inspiration from outside the genre than from within it, to be honest. A lot of the most interesting SFF books I've read were written by people who've brought in a lot from other fields.

 

[Nick B]

At the moment I am reading a lot of Lee Childs books, simply because I enjoyed the movie Jack Reacher. I have always read a lot of sci-fi thrillers anyway as my read of choice so it is simply a change of setting.

I think it pays to read in as many genres as you can anyway as long as you enjoy them.

 

[Mark Gelineau]

Good point. I think I tend to focus a little too much on the genres I write, mainly because they are the genres I love. Fantasy, Sci Fi, Horror. But I think there can a be a real benefit from broadening horizons a little bit. I know when we were writing our supernatural horror novel, the revelations came in a structure more like a traditional mystery, and looking at some classic mystery constructions really helped quite a bit. Kinda opened up my eyes a bit.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm also writing epic fantasy, and have read as widely as I can in the genre in terms of reading major fantasy works, both classic and modern. I've also read major SF classics, and I used to read literary classics by default.

However, not long after I starting writing, I developed a thirst for historical non-fiction - Rome, Mediaeval Western Europe, and the Byzantine Empire - to provide some kind of context, depth, and detail to my world.

I have narrowed down my fantasy fiction to certain authors I particularly enjoy reading about, and note how they use POV, language, character and plot development especially.

I've also read a few classic thrillers, specifically to see how they deal with pacing - which is usually pretty fast! Tom Clancy, Lee Childs, Raymond Chandler, Dan Brown, and John Grisham, have usually been especially entertaining.

Read anything that is popular, and ignore the critics - look for what appealed to readers in the first place.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'm not sure I can read outside my genre as my tastes are very catholic. But I can't abide gratuitous: sex, violence, evil, bad language, BSDM etc.

 

[Fishbowl Helmet]

I think writers should read enough within their genre(s) of choice to know what's generally going on, but they shouldn't read exclusively in that genre. I think it's far better if they don't. Reading widely or engaging with media widely as a writer is always a good idea. If the writer only reads within their genre or only engages with media in their genre then they tend to be recursive. Tend to, but not always, of course.

In the example of fantasy, I really enjoy a lot of fantasy outside of prose, especially of the anime, manga, and cartoon variety, but generally haven't found much fantasy prose that is engaging to me at all. It's far too limited. Mostly white, Northern European centric, and when there is magic it's generally neither mysterious nor magical. It's basically pseudo-science at best and rather limited in imagination. However, what the writers and artists in anime, manga, and some cartoons are doing... that stuff is spectacular. Were I to write a fantasy novel, it would be far closer to those in style and setting than Martin or Tolkien. But then, if someone's going to write in a given genre, they should be a reader of that genre. There's nothing more pretentious than hearing an author say they don't read the genre they write.

But, bringing in different 'outside' ideas and ways of thinking about the genre, or bringing elements from one genre into another is how things stay fresh. Or from one medium to another. Take the characterisation of non-humans in most fantasy. It was flat and typically racist in tone, but rather than inject three-dimensional characterisation into those non-human characters (something akin to how the better science fiction handles species), fantasy has largely moved on and abandoned non-human characters. Or the noir and thriller aesthetics that Toby mentions in the OP, a fantasy with a noir tone, style, or setting and a thriller or mystery plot would be far more interesting to me than yet another cookie-cutter fantasy novel.

 

[ratsy]

Over past decade or so I've almost only read fantasy books. When I started to write, that was the obvious direction for me, but as I worked on a couple ideas, I realized I didn't want to write that kind of book. Oddly enough my book I'm writing is more paranormal detective, which isnt that familiar to me.

I've written mainly horror type shorts as well, which I didn't have a lot of experience reading outside of King.

I have started to read a lot more Space Opera kind of stuff, and its been great fun. I may even dip my toes into that genre some day for writing. I did a couple space shorts and loved doing them.

It seems I'm not the only one though who doesn't solely read his writing genre, or vise versa.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Take the characterisation of non-humans in most fantasy. It was flat and typically racist in tone, but rather than inject three-dimensional characterisation into those non-human characters (something akin to how the better science fiction handles species), fantasy has largely moved on and abandoned non-human characters.

I've no idea what you are talking about?

 

[MWagner]

As I noted in the post that inspired this thread, it is curious how many authors of epic fantasy say they mostly read history and historical fiction. I've come across a half-dozen interviews with authors where and enthusiastic blogger asks the writer what he thinks of the work of some successful writer in the genre and he admits he hasn't read any books by that writer. I suspect one of the biggest differences between a typical SFF author and a typical fan is their reading habits. Some people read fantasy when they're younger, and then branch out to other genres, and a lot of people simply read less fiction as they get older. I read a couple books a week when I was 15 years old, and four out of five were SFF. Today, I read 15-20 books a year, less than half of which are fiction, and less than half of the fiction is SFF. And yet when I sat down to write a novel, I returned to epic fantasy.

I've made an attempt to familiarize myself with what's popular today. I have to admit I don't like most of what I've read. It's aimed at a different reader than myself, with different expectations and pleasure points. Sometimes, that worries me. There's a tension between reaching out to an audience and writing what you want to read yourself. I suppose you just write what makes you happy and hope there are enough people who share your tastes that it will find an audience. And I do find enough modern fantasy enjoyable that it allays my fears that I'm a hopeless anachronism.

I will say that for the type of novels I'm trying to write, it's perfectly natural that I would draw more from history, historical fiction, and fantasy of an earlier era. That material stirs my imagination as a creator far more than contemporary fantasy I read. And I agree with others who have pointed out that you need to draw on sources outside contemporary genre conventions to make your work fresh and original. Furthermore, the most successful author in the genre today draws more from history and historical fiction than from fantasy. A Song of Ice and Fire is chock full of historical incidents, setting details, and tidbits. And it clearly resonates with readers.

 

[barrett1987]

I cant remember the last nonfantasy story I read. Hmmn. I should fix that.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I'm useless at sticking to a gene both in reading and writing which has been my biggest obstacle in selling a novel. If it has a good character and interesting story I'll read it. Vampires and zombies have to work really hard to grab me though. (usually I only watch them on TV if there is a man with a nice pair of legs and tight leather trousers) I'm pretty laid back about sexuality but I struggle when the story contains a romance involving something that is dead.

 

[Maieius]

I'm useless at sticking to a gene both in reading and writing which has been my biggest obstacle in selling a novel. If it has a good character and interesting story I'll read it. Vampires and zombies have to work really hard to grab me though. (usually I only watch them on TV if there is a man with a nice pair of legs and tight leather trousers) I'm pretty laid back about sexuality but I struggle when the story contains a romance involving something that is dead.

Agreed, Twilight certainly killed vampires for me and I've never understood the whole zombie thing. It's never been a compelling theme. I used to love Darren Shan, but when I read it now, it feels a little childish in the beginning (but I still find it enjoyable) and at the age I was when reading it, it was great. But that was about as far as I got with the whole vampire thing. Everything is about vampires now.

 

[K.S. Crooks]

I primarily write fantasy, but I have always read all types of books. There is too much I want to get to and I don't feel confined to any one style. Would an action movie star only watch action movies? My most recent books read are a Jack Reacher novel by Lee Child, the Graceling series by Kristin Cashore, Stephen Hawking's My Brief History and now I am reading Scarecrow by Matthew Reilly. I want to have fun reading and if it adds something to my writing then that's a bonus.
With regards to the effect of Twilight on vampires in stories, I was at an amusement park a few years ago and someone had shirt that said "And then Buffy killed Edward" so not all hope is lost.

 

[Toby Frost]

Very interesting thoughts. I agree that it's what you bring from outside that often makes a story. One of the things I've noticed with some younger writers is that their sources of inspiration - films, games and TV - are often very derivative of themselves.

As for the vampire thing, I think it depends on the slant that the story takes. I don't find vampires particularly interesting, but vampire hunters are, and there's a big overlap in my mind between the life of the vampire hunter and that of the PI in a noir story: determined, flawed, usually outgunned and party to secrets that reveal greater corruption. That to me is far more interesting than the combination of lifestyle and sexual fantasy that vampires tend to be. So I often find that I get out of noir stories what I would like to get out of vampire stories, in the same way that many people could get out of a modern vampire story what they'd get out of a romance.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Actually it was Anne Rice that inspired my dislike of vampires. Twlight didn't even figure on my radar. Buffy was the exception followed by David Tennant in tight leather trousers but I've never read another vampire book. Vampires are pretty much the only thing I will put back without investigating further - even zombies I can live with as long as it isn't an erotic romance with one and they're sort of the herd mentality zombies and fighting them is the focus of the story.

My very favourite kind of story is probably "We have a virus and 24 hours to cure it."

But my favourite ever book is an historical borderline paranormal/fantasy. It's about the Pendle Witches and there are the remains of spells and it leaves it open as to whether or not they are real witches.

This year so far I've read a lot of literary fiction for me. Right now I'm reading Syrian Coffee, a story set in Aleppo. It's about a group of foreign Christian women who have married Syrian Christians. There is a part set in 2013 but I haven't got to that yet - it's been added as an epilogue. Usually the prologue would be an info dump but because of the current situation it works beautifully well because it contrasts so much with the news stories. It's describing an ancient city that is being dismantled.

The only fantasy I've read has been the third Anne Lyle book, Krista Wayment's dragon books and a Dresden File.

The one thing my taste in books has shown me is that breaking accepted writing conventions can be very effective.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

I've always read pretty much everything I could get my hands on, from Plato to Dick Francis. Recently I've been reading more fantasy but I read Dumas a short while ago and still like to dip into the classics from time to time.

If anything I feel I haven't read enough SFF, because people keep saying "Have you read so-and-so?" and I have to answer no. So why is every room in my house lined with bookshelves, stuffed with books, all read (almost) and mostly SFF?

I tend not to read as much when I'm on a roll with my writing because if I'm awake enough to read, surely I'm awake enough to write, right?

Like now, for example. 4,600 words so far today on the main WIP and still going strong. I'll probably write for as long as I can keep my eyes open, because all the creativity is leaking from my pores at the moment.