Sentences that say too much...

[Hex]

I've been spotting this a bit recently and I wanted it remark on it, because at first it seems to contradict what we're told to do -- pack value into sentences.

So how much extra information works packed into a sentence? Or is it just a style thing? (I have a short attention span so can only cope with so much?)

But sentences like:

Adele lifted the ray-ban sunglasses from her emerald green eyes and pushed them into her curly auburn hair, then she tipped her freckled face back, exposing her long, pale neck, and screamed, "Invaders!"

Seem to me to suck any sense of, well, anything from the action.

So: how soon to say what the character looks like? how to fit the information in (without the use of mirrors!)? and how much does it matter?

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

It puts me off too (which doesn't mean I'm not guilty of doing it).

Too many prepositional phrases can make the sentences drag and are really mini info-dumps. I have been trying to avoid them on the whole to keep it punchy, but that has its pitfalls too.

 

[The Judge]

I really, really hope that's not a quote from a published novel...

Anyway, I agree. I love long sentences, when I write them anyway, but I think there's a knack to producing them so that they both deliver interesting/necessary information and maintain pace. Unfortunately, I don't know what the knack is.

As to describing the main POV character, I am thinking of patenting my most recent method, which is to have someone else describe him!

 

[goldhawk]

Long sentences kill action. But why describe them at all? Is there anything unusual about them that effects the story? If not, skip the description.

 

[ratsy]

That sentence is horrible to my eyes, but I think there can be a subtle way to do it.

Something like.

Adele noticed the clouds were covering the beating sun, which until then had been wreaking havoc on her pale, freckled skin. She lifted her sunglasses to the top of her head, careful to not get them caught in her curly hair. She looked up and noticed it wasn't clouds above; dozens of ships, emerald like her eyes, hovered there. "Invaders!"

I know this is longer but it does get some descriptions through. Personally I don't do much character describing. I leave that to the reader to decide

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I did my reading last night and half way through realised that not once do I describe the Empress in the prologue. No mention of her hard grey eyes, or her height, or what she was wearing. Now, arguably, that's a bad thing, but in who knows how many beta reads and edits has anyone come back to me to say they needed a description of her.

I say this in the certain knowledge that when it comes to description of characters I am not a good barometer.

 

[jastius]

Full stop at the comma after hair.
Add two short sentences to carry the action through the phrasing next, and increase tension.
"That buzzing sound above her. Adele's eyes followed the path of the silver speck overhead as it rapidly ballooned in size."
(Rest of sentence.)


And sorry, the judge, I think it may be a little late for that patenting...

http://writeworld.org/post/30665261691/literary-criticism-the-mirror-cliche-and

But here are some more..
http://nakedwithoutapen.blogspot.ca/2010/10/not-mirror-again-describing-your.html
http://writers.stackexchange.com/qu...point-of-view-character-without-using-mirrors

Ideas for character description...

 

[Hex]

Nice alternative, Ratsy, and I agree one of the less-than-successful things about my sentence was the way all the description was dumped without any real relevance to the scene. But I think lots of description does slow things down (from my point of view anyway) and unless the writing is stellar, it's difficult to get away with it.

@The Judge -- it will astonish you to learn that the sentence does not (as far as I'm aware) come from a published piece of work. I like your idea -- it's a tiny bit trickier from first person but not impossible. Why on earth did I waste so much time on reflective surfaces...?

and Jo, I think the Empress is quite scary enough as she is.

 

[J Riff]

Long sentences are fine, but ones containing strings of adjectives generally aren't.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

My issue with that sentence is the leisurely pace and then she ends it by screaming "Invaders!". Had she put her sunglasses on her head and then looked at the landscape in a more sedate manner it might not have been so bad.

I did my reading last night and half way through realised that not once do I describe the Empress in the prologue. No mention of her hard grey eyes, or her height, or what she was wearing. Now, arguably, that's a bad thing, but in who knows how many beta reads and edits has anyone come back to me to say they needed a description of her.

I say this in the certain knowledge that when it comes to description of characters I am not a good barometer.

But then I went through a ton of beta readers and nothing I did convinced any (except I think The Judge -- it was someone on here) that Angus was ugly or pathetic or a wimp lol. I don't think having description effects how a reader sees the character unless it is absolutely vital to the story. I've heard a number of people complain about Draco Malfoy being blond in the films but he is described as such in the books - whereas everyone accepts Ron as a redhead but I think that's because he is part of a family and it's a plot point.

However, I do think if a character is to be described it should as soon as possible or it ruins it for me when I find out later the one in my head is wrong.

I went through a dilemma trying make sure my readers knew one of my characters were black.

 

[goldhawk]

http://nakedwithoutapen.blogspot.ca/2010/10/not-mirror-again-describing-your.html

"Is It Necessary?"

I totally agree with that.

 

[Brian G Turner]

So: how soon to say what the character looks like?

You don't - you give a sense of themselves. Character experience means being within the character, not looking at them. If the character is used to mirrors, and has a pretty good idea of what they look like, then little details on this can be slipped in early. However, readers will likely form their own image regardless of what you say.

not once do I describe the Empress in the prologue

And it doesn't suffer for it. "Empress" says power and presence. It's easy to put an image to that, especially as something of her character may well be hidden under stately dress, so it may not be so obvious anyway.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

However, I do think if a character is to be described it should as soon as possible or it ruins it for me when I find out later the one in my head is wrong.

Yes!

 

[Ray McCarthy]

http://nakedwithoutapen.blogspot.ca/2010/10/not-mirror-again-describing-your.html

In teen novels, it actually makes a bit more sense. At that age, most of us are concerned about our looks, and terrified of our flaws. So its normal that a teenager would be staring into the mirror, if for no other reason than to deal with their zits.

Is It Necessary?

The first question is whether or not it's necessary to describe your character and to what extent. In most genres other than romance, having an exact description of the protagonist is not as imperative. Far better to tell us about their quirks - the things that make us understand them as people and thus makes them memorable.

Though perhaps with Aliens you should give the reader some idea ... James White has very alien Aliens, not Star Trek Wrinkly foreheads.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Long sentences kill action. But why describe them at all? Is there anything unusual about them that effects the story? If not, skip the description.

+1!

I have an idea of how my characters look, but it is mutable and I'd much rather my reader defines their look unless something about their look is important to the plot.

However, is Hex speaking merely of character descriptions that are too long, or run-on sentences (of which I'm quite a fan, if not necessarily guilty)? For both/either, my inclination would be if it sounds tell-y, edit it down out split it, and don't miss an opportunity to use physical description to give a sense of character.

There's a dreadful village tyrant and gossip in two of my shorts called Meryl Pikepepper. I don't think I described her beyond having hair the colour of stewed tea and serving someone as she absently picked at some dried food from a fawn polyester dress. That was foul enough for me to know she was a wrong un

If I read the detailed explanation of someone's features I would feel embarrassed for the author, most likely cringe, and then wait the whole plot for it to become relevant in some way. That sounds like something for the author's benefit and should be cut on second draft.

(Race is a different matter that has to be handled more artfully I think; I wouldn't expect a non-white POV to reference their own race any more than I go around reminding myself I am white (although usually at work I am the only white one there, so that would give me a way to introduce it if my character had a similar life to me ). Again, I'd expect the author to use it where relevant - I have a main POV in Tall Man who is dual heritage (father is Native American) who gets called 'cherry n*****' by a bigot racist, but in Soot, the large proportion of characters are West-African heritage so it comes up in other ways such as food, names and expressions.)

We're writers after all, shouldn't we be finding more delightful and thoughtful ways to describe our characters than long and bland description?

pH

 

[psikeyhackr]

There are rating systems for reading difficulty that are often used by schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flesch–Kincaid_readability_tests

The length of the sentences is usually a big factor. Mary Shelley's Frankenstein scoers high because of long sentences. That seems to be the writing style back then.

psik

 

[MWagner]

I have very few physical descriptions of the characters in my work-in-progress, and those are mostly of secondary characters. Almost nothing about facial features either, more along the lines of "fair-haired and sleek," or "broad at the shoulders, wearing many gold bands." I think unless there's something particularly relevant about the character's appearance (unusually ugly or attractive, extremely large or small, notable scars of disfigurements), the reader can draw their own picture based on the character's behavior and non-physical qualities.

 

[Mirannan]

I have very few physical descriptions of the characters in my work-in-progress, and those are mostly of secondary characters. Almost nothing about facial features either, more along the lines of "fair-haired and sleek," or "broad at the shoulders, wearing many gold bands." I think unless there's something particularly relevant about the character's appearance (unusually ugly or attractive, extremely large or small, notable scars of disfigurements), the reader can draw their own picture based on the character's behavior and non-physical qualities.

This. Only go on at length about even a major character's appearance, bearing, gait etc. if it's actually relevant; and even then, introduce parts of the description in small doses.

Alternatively, have another character do the description at length. Maybe in a narrative spoken by that character. Of course (well, so I think) such an exhaustive description will only be of someone who stands out in some way. Possibly several ways.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

If you give too much information in a single sentence like your example, Hex, it can be too much for readers to absorb, and they may not remember all of it, especially if it is not relevant to what is happening. (And, unfortunately, what they do remember might not be the part that you most want them to remember). You know I love description, but in that sentence I think the ray-bans are the dominant image, and enough. The rest could come later if it matters.

There is another kind of sentence that has too much information: the kind where the author tries to force in too much information that isn't particularly related. The ideas can jumble together and neither one has the sort of impact it should. If the information is all closely related, and is carefully chosen, then each part of the sentence may build on the part that comes before. But if there is just too much being crammed in, then the different parts of the sentence may be fighting for the reader's attention. Which is, obviously, not good.

 

[Hex]

Good points.

I swear I wasn't planning to use that sentence.

Also, I don't have anything against long sentences as such. I think you can do a lot with well-placed semicolons and the odd comma, but that sentence seemed to be breaking off in mini-tangents every couple of words to fit in description.

I'm not wildly keen on describing characters and I don't like the sort of artifice that's sometimes used -- "I looked at my father; he was so like me. His hair, greying now where mine was deepest black, but otherwise both of us were tall, wide-shouldered and devilishly handsome. Just one thing marked my mother's blood in me: where his eyes were pale blue, I had inherited her mismatched green and silver eyes..."

It can work, but as soon as it's obvious what's happening, it makes me twitch (far less than examples like the one in my first post, though).