Spoiler for TWOW - Show Runners may have given something major away...

[Gry Wnd]

Hello All,

I don't want to just add this to an earlier thread on the subject because it is something that even I may be a little upset that I found out....

Therefore here is your spoiler Warning - if the title of this thread isn't good enough...

If you don't want to know Spoiler......... The Fate of Jon then don't read on.

I wrote it in White below so Highlight it to read

In this Article

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/stannis-burns-shireen-game-of-thrones-dance-of-dragons

It says this.. "But tonight’s death was perhaps the most upsetting, and any book reader would agree because Princess Shireen Baratheon being burned alive to further her father’s ambition? That is a show-invented brutality and a sign of just how dark this TV series is willing to go. Though on the “inside the episode” feature that aired on HBO, creators D.B. Weiss and David Benioff said they were ”shocked” to learn this information from author George R.R. Martin, implying that the burning of Shireen Baratheon is a joy book readers may yet get to experience in The Winds of Winter. (In fact it may be tied to—spoiler alert—another characters fate)"

So basically Shireen is at the Wall and going to get Burnt in TWOW. Why? Well, why do you think? Mel has figured out Jon is AA and knows she needs to resurrect him. ASAP because his consciousness fades with every min inside of Ghost. So that is a more Plausible way for Jon to come back then some of the other crackpot "Ice cell" theories I've seen in this forum.

I'm shocked they said that in the "Inside the episode"... It's like they forgot that they could still spoil, well...you know.. They had to know we would piece it together, weird... I'd be upset if I was GRRM. Maybe that's why he doesn't want to talk about the show in his Blog...

 

[Koopa]

we'll see, the books and story differ. Though something was bound to happen with Shireen. I always felt it would have more to do with her having greyscale though. But who knows.

 

[ArstenWhitebeard]

oh god. shouldn't have read this. now feel sick

 

[Ursa major]

I think that we have to accept -- indeed, embrace -- the big changes from the books that have been increasingly introduced into the show.

It maintains the books' power to surprise and intrigue us, while allowing the show to progress to its conclusion without giving (too many) spoilers regarding the eventual content of the last couple of books.

 

[viZion]

So that is a more Plausible way for Jon to come back then some of the other crackpot "Ice cell" theories I've seen in this forum.

The most plausible way is really that the stab wound isn't actually fatal. I've gone on about this at length in other threads but it is possible to survive a stab wound. Tyrion has survived a lot worse. So has Theon. I'm personally sick of this resurrecting crap.

Anyway, I've only read the books. Maybe in the show it looks like it's one super serious stab wound that no one could ever possibly survive, but it didn't read that way in the books.

 

[Koopa]

In the same vein, the last episode reveiled quite a bit about Stannis future in the books (guess he did his job coming to Jon's aid). It also seems telling that Melisandre returned to Castle Black. Meaning that if Jon lives, she wil have a part to play.

Btw, i'm really hoping the shows writers just needed a figurehead and chose Thorne for it. Cause to me, he never seemed like the backstabbing type. He felt (imo)like the type who may curse and dislike you, and let you know it in your face whilst still doing the right thing when it comes down to it.

Arya's bit where cool as always. Glad to see she isn't fully following the cult's teaching, but remains very much herself. Womever that is

 

[Ursa major]

He felt (imo)like the type who may curse and dislike you, and let you know it in your face whilst still doing the right thing when it comes down to it.

Agreed.

 

[Knott]

In the same vein, the last episode reveiled quite a bit about Stannis future in the books (guess he did his job coming to Jon's aid). It also seems telling that Melisandre returned to Castle Black. Meaning that if Jon lives, she wil have a part to play.

Btw, i'm really hoping the shows writers just needed a figurehead and chose Thorne for it. Cause to me, he never seemed like the backstabbing type. He felt (imo)like the type who may curse and dislike you, and let you know it in your face whilst still doing the right thing when it comes down to it.

Arya's bit where cool as always. Glad to see she isn't fully following the cult's teaching, but remains very much herself. Womever that is

It was kind of nice in the Show to see Stannis die. I know we read it at the end of the last book. But realistically, Stannis had to die. The War of the Five Kings is over, and the War of the Three Queens is about to start. Shireen and Myrcella dying, if it happens early in the TWOW answers the question of who the Three Queens will be.

As for Melisandre staying at the Wall when Stannis marched (in the book), or returning (in the show). It tends to confirm my belief that she has a hidden agenda, and might even be inadvertently following the enemy.

 

[viZion]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-parents-theories_n_7654748.html

Another huge spoiler coming out of the show. At this point I love that the show is going to actually give us some freaking answers next season since I still doubt we'll ever get the answers in a book.

 

[Warren_Paul]

Shireen is definitely going to be burned, and I suspect it going to be used in the book to bring Jon back with blood magic like they used on Drogo. Unlike Drogo, who's spirit couldn't be restored, Jon's spirit will be in Ghost and when the time is right, easily shift back into his blood magic healed body.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/24/game-of-thrones-jon-snow-parents-theories_n_7654748.html

Another huge spoiler coming out of the show. At this point I love that the show is going to actually give us some freaking answers next season since I still doubt we'll ever get the answers in a book.

The speculation does seem very convincing, but lets not get too carried away here. It's still unknown that the casting is really calling for Arthur Dayne.

It was kind of nice in the Show to see Stannis die. I know we read it at the end of the last book. But realistically, Stannis had to die. The War of the Five Kings is over, and the War of the Three Queens is about to start. Shireen and Myrcella dying, if it happens early in the TWOW answers the question of who the Three Queens will be.

As for Melisandre staying at the Wall when Stannis marched (in the book), or returning (in the show). It tends to confirm my belief that she has a hidden agenda, and might even be inadvertently following the enemy.

Stannis didn't die in the book. Unless I missed something, and if I remember correctly, it was left with nobody knew what exactly happened to Stannis in ADWD. The letter Ramsey sent Jon was clearly fake, intending to taunt him.

The fate of Stannis would be left completely unknown, if GRRM himself hadn't spoiled it for us by releasing Stannis PoV previews of TWOW.

 

[Koopa]

How was it the letter clearly fake? We think it might be fake, but it might not be.

 

[Warren_Paul]

I just reread the relevant parts of the book in connection to it. Fake was probably not the right word to use. Most of what he says is pretty accurate. Mance Rayder and his spearwives never escaped from Winterfell, as far as we know, so that must be true because he now knows who they are.

The problem is, Stannis hasn't even fought the Bolton's yet. Last we knew, his army is still snowed in at that crofter's village and he's in his tower. We've just had the iron bank arrive to pay him a visit, bringing more men, after a scene where all the Karstarks were getting all worked up and eager to go about killing Boltons and Freys. And then there's the Theon PoV sample chapter of TWOW released by GRRM featuring Stannis quite alive and planning his next step.

Of course, the scene of Jon reading the letter might well be future events, and TWOW could well be going a little back in time to show the contents of the letter from a Stannis army PoV. But then if so, it's a pretty bad spoiler GRRM threw out there -- thanks GRRM for ruining the suspense and telling us Stannis loses the fight at Winterfell before we've even read that in the next book -- Of course we have the TV show to reinforce the contents of the letter with Stannis dying on the loosing side, although at a much faster rate than 7 days.

Tormund's doubt as to the contents of the letter also leans towards disbelieving it, but then, Tormund doesn't know the entire story.


The last we heard, a bunch of Boltons/Freys (not the entire army, it seems) were rushing off all overeager and worked up to fight Stannis after nearly killing each other over spoken insults. That's hardly the mindset they want to have going into a battle, it will make them reckless, get them killed. I saw it as a way to level the playing field. Now Stannis's weakened army will have a chance because Ramsey's group is gone somewhat crazed and is leaving the safety of Winterfell, and leaving it undermanned, weakened.

 

[Knott]

I just reread the relevant parts of the book in connection to it. Fake was probably not the right word to use. Most of what he says is pretty accurate. Mance Rayder and his spearwives never escaped from Winterfell, as far as we know, so that must be true because he now knows who they are.

The problem is, Stannis hasn't even fought the Bolton's yet. Last we knew, his army is still snowed in at that crofter's village and he's in his tower. We've just had the iron bank arrive to pay him a visit, bringing more men, after a scene where all the Karstarks were getting all worked up and eager to go about killing Boltons and Freys. And then there's the Theon PoV sample chapter of TWOW released by GRRM featuring Stannis quite alive and planning his next step.

Similar to how GRRM overlapped/ interwove the end of AFFC and start of DWD, we could have the same situation again with Stannis. Reading of the letter at end of DWD could actually be after the Theon Chapter in TWOW, which means Stannis could be dead.

Of course, the scene of Jon reading the letter might well be future events, and TWOW could well be going a little back in time to show the contents of the letter from a Stannis army PoV. But then if so, it's a pretty bad spoiler GRRM threw out there -- thanks GRRM for ruining the suspense and telling us Stannis loses the fight at Winterfell before we've even read that in the next book -- Of course we have the TV show to reinforce the contents of the letter with Stannis dying on the loosing side, although at a much faster rate than 7 days.

Tormund's doubt as to the contents of the letter also leans towards disbelieving it, but then, Tormund doesn't know the entire story.


The last we heard, a bunch of Boltons/Freys (not the entire army, it seems) were rushing off all overeager and worked up to fight Stannis after nearly killing each other over spoken insults. That's hardly the mindset they want to have going into a battle, it will make them reckless, get them killed. I saw it as a way to level the playing field. Now Stannis's weakened army will have a chance because Ramsey's group is gone somewhat crazed and is leaving the safety of Winterfell, and leaving it undermanned, weakened.

The force originally sent out to deal with Stannis is Frey's and Manderly's, makes one wonder if they'll start fighting, or if the Manderly's will switch sides. Wyman Manderly brought no hostages for the Bolton's other then himself, and his health wouldn't let him survive confinement very long.

 

[Needle]

As we all know, the series is going further and further off book. I feel pretty confident that for the purposes of the TV series Mel will resurrect Jon. Having said that, as (I believe) the original author, several years ago, of the bodies in the ice cell theory, I stand by it unless/until the written words of GRRM prove me wrong! I say again, as I said then, Jon is not dead because Jon is not Jon!! Love you guys!

 

[mtzGr]

I don't think he'll need to be resurrected either. (at least in the zombie sense)

Jon Snow -- Beware of Spoilers