Fancy formatting

[Phyrebrat]

Following on from a couple of blogs I wrote recently about experimental practice in writing - particularly with Danielewski's House of Leaves, and The Raw Shark Texts - I was wondering who decides on the format of a book that is pushing the envelope.

For example, in House of Leaves, there are all sorts of strange appendices where text is written back-to-front, spiraling, in small cubes on successive pages and so on. In The Raw Shark Texts, a lot of the text is formatted so as to create a picture with the words. When they submit their MS do you think they brought this up?

I suppose on a smaller scale it's similar to the first letter illuminations (in my copies) of His Dark Materials, but they may have only appeared in reprints after the trilogy had already proved itself.

Who makes this gamble; author or publisher?

pH

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Lewis Carroll's the Mouse's Tale / Tail.
The oldest specially formatted mass printed text I know.
I'm a coward. I'd only bring up the issue if a publisher was actually setting a contract in front of me. It seems rare.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

For example, in House of Leaves, there are all sorts of strange appendices where text is written back-to-front, spiraling, in small cubes on successive pages and so on. In The Raw Shark Texts, a lot of the text is formatted so as to create a picture with the words. When they submit their MS do you think they brought this up?

I think in those circumstances the author would most definitely bring it up when submitting the manuscript. (Although if they happened not to be already a well-established author I think the wise thing to do would be to put a note to that effect at the end of the manuscript where the agent or publisher would not read it until after they had already read the rest and presumably been favorably impressed by the content rather than any proposed formatting.)

Things like illuminated letters at the beginning of chapters would likely be ideas brought forth in-house by the art or design department.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I was wondering who decides on the format of a book that is pushing the envelope.

Pushing the envelope?...I'm going to press past it and rip it up into tiny little pieces.

I plan to publish my Magnum Opus in a limited edition Akkadian cuneiform proper box set - 60 baked clay tablets - at least you'll need a proper box when its delivered - with illustrations in the form of ten 5000 piece jigsaws (no pictures or clues, or in fact any labels) and an accompanying collection of wax cylinders with the correct mood music to play.

...Sorry the world went a bit giddy. Listen to Teresa instead

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I think formatting comes down to the publisher, so it would need to be something they agreed was neccessary. And if it mattered so much to the author, if they refused, then you'd either have to agree to change it or walk away.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

The biggest danger for a writer in telling agents and publishers about innovative formatting ideas before they have seen the story is that they might (probably will) get the idea that the writer is trying to dazzle them with gimmicks in place of a well-written story.

The worst danger is that they may be right.

So the first thing to do would be to present them with a superior piece of writing and then discuss any special formatting, and how and why (and if) it would enhance the text. Even if they love the book, it would probably still require a very convincing argument, but some publishers would be more receptive than others.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Interesting replies, although not particularly different from what I suspected. I should like to clarify, I'm not looking to do this myself, BTW, I was just interested as so many (relatively) books these days seem to have some kind of gimmick, and the only one I can really justify it in is HOL. I'm a fan of Illuminated first letters for some reason, but I'm writing horror, not the Book of Kells

pH

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Book of Kells

I think it was SP anyway.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Interesting replies, although not particularly different from what I suspected. I should like to clarify, I'm not looking to do this myself, BTW, I was just interested as so many (relatively) books these days seem to have some kind of gimmick, and the only one I can really justify it in is HOL. I'm a fan of Illuminated first letters for some reason, but I'm writing horror, not the Book of Kells

pH

I'm not sure a bit of detail on the first letter is a problem - Gary does nice fancy first letters. But thr publisher's house style would dictate them.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I'm not sure a bit of detail on the first letter is a problem - Gary does nice fancy first letters. But thr publisher's house style would dictate them.

Whether to use ornamental drop caps at the beginnings of chapters would, I think, be a decision for the book designer, and depend on whether the font meshes with other design elements chosen for the book, and of course the type of story. They aren't usual (ordinary drop caps are very common, though) but they aren't so unusual as be surprising.

But if the drop caps were commissioned especially for the book, with characters or scenes from the book, like little illustrations—which is quite uncommon, and would probably be quite expensive—that would have to be decided at a higher level, I am sure.

(Unless the author was a talented artist and/or graphic designer and designed and provided the font him- or herself, which might be another thing altogether, I suppose.)

 

[Ray McCarthy]

author was a talented artist and/or graphic designer and designed and provided the font him- or herself,

That's not that common (combo good writer & artist), but people that can really design a font rarer than hens teeth. Those sort of Graphic Designers probably earn more than most fine artists or writers.
Actually ANY decent graphic designer earns more than the average for published authors. My dad discovered people were buying his pictures (watercolours) for the frames he'd made, so stopped selling them. I would have been more pragmatic and switched to marketing frames.