Sebastien de Castell - Greatcoat series

Brian G Turner

Brian G Turner

Fantasist & Futurist
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I didn't enjoy it but looking at the sort of books and authors you enjoyed from your recent posts it's probably right up your street.
 
I liked this one very much. The second is already waiting somewhere in my ever-growing to read pile.
 
I read the first two and enjoyed them, although the story is a little slow in parts (but I'm a very impatient person!). You really need to be able to let go and dive into his world. Characters are fantastic, and his plot twists are really cool, too.
 
I've just read to page 79 and am probably quitting.......it is basically edging on grimdark which I don't like and I too was having problems with the pace.

Analysing it - (and comparing slightly with Codex Alera which I read recently which was energetic and swept me along) - my comments are:

It is very clever and the opening is original and amusing in a dark way
The world he has created is detailed and a lot of thought has gone into it
He is good on period details and really knows his stuff on the sword fighting

But

He has an awful lot of back-story in the opening. Yes, it is setting up the world and the information is needed, but it felt like a lot of the attention was on the past not the present.
He explains the sword scenes - I think the info on fighting techniques is great - but what he does is say "the situation is xxxx and what the MC had learnt to do for this was yyyyyyy" and then MC does yyyyyy. So that slows it too. It is cleverly done, but doesn't help the pace.

To me, I'd like it better if he'd written two books.

Book 1 - All the back story from Traitor's Blade - how MC came to be a greatcoat, how he trained in sword fighting, how his world went to pot
Book 2 - the current story of Traitor's Blade - how he is trying to fix how his world went to pot

It would move along faster and not feel that it was looking into all the things that went wrong over the last few years as well as all the things currently going wrong. It would also train the reader a bit in the sword and fighting techniques as they read through the books and less would be needed in book 2.

I'd be interested to know what people think of this analysis - not least as I am currently wrestling with the start of a fantasy I am writing (with fighting in it) and trying to balance how and when to tell the how we got here/world background story.
 
Montero said:
To me, I'd like it better if he'd written two books.

Book 1 - All the back story from Traitor's Blade - how MC came to be a greatcoat, how he trained in sword fighting, how his world went to pot
Book 2 - the current story of Traitor's Blade - how he is trying to fix how his world went to pot
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I do like Castell's voice, but almost all the dialogue is infodump, and so is the exposition. All of the actual story seems based in the past - what happened to Greatcoats: how they were formed, and what happened to them.

The present story is: we ran from one fight to another [insert explanation of technique], and travelled somewhere different [insert history of the place]. Meanwhile, I felt bad because [backstory].

Characters don't really come to life for me - Kest and Brasti are simply "swordsman and bowman" and I keep forgetting which is which.

My Kindle says I'm 33% of the way through, but I've reached the point where the story has stopped pulling me in, and I'm having to force myself to push on.

I do like the use of voice - but I think it's seriously missing a sense of immediacy.
 
I read the first volume a while back and really, really liked it. Granted, there may be an awful lot of backstory in there, but personally I found it helped give context to present circumstances. The contrast between how high they rose and their current nadir is part of what made me sympathetic towards them. That said, there was a lot of backstory.

Brian Turner said:
The present story is: we ran from one fight to another [insert explanation of technique], and travelled somewhere different [insert history of the place]
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Um... Doesn't that apply to an awful lot of Fantasy?;) I think what I'm trying to say is that though the shape of it could be described as formulaic, I thought the writing and voice were different enough to be engaging.

Juliana said:
The endings are good; he's great at plot twists.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'd second that. I found the sequel similar in that regard too.
 
Juliana said:
The endings are good; he's great at plot twists.
Click to expand...
Gonk the Insane said:
I thought the writing and voice were different enough to be engaging.
Click to expand...

I'm not giving up on it yet - there's enough promise so far to show I'm reading something different. And there have been a few books I had to push to finish and was seriously glad I did. :)
 
I actually liked the fact that story and backstory are being told simultaneously. Makes for a very interesting read. Writing two books is what anybody could've written. Bland but easily digested. To intertwine the stories like he did (without losing coherence) takes a master's touch.

Then again, I have never written a novel myself, so I can just consume and enjoy.
 
From this thread, I'm getting a Gemmell/Abercrombie/Butcher vibe about this guy - is that accurate? I might have the interest if it is.
 
@vanye - I wouldn't find the two separate books would be bland - as in the contents of both would still have all the details that impressed me from the story and the backstory - but interested that you find the intertwining to be a key point of the book for you, whereas for me it is one of the reasons I put them down. I'd agree that you could still follow the story so the intertwining has been done skillfully, without muddling, but it is what it did to the pace I didn't like.

@ Big Peat - I wouldn't say much of a Butcher vibe. He writes more energetically and faster paced. The level of detail on fighting is similar though.

@brian - I think your summary hits it on the head for me.
 
@ The Big Peat My bad for being unclear - that was supposed to read that Butcher writes at a faster pace.

@Gonk - <snort>
 
Ahhh so. Thank you, the both of you.

And Abercrombie's inordinate invocation of invective is one of his best traits!
 
I wouldn't even consider Bitcher to be in the same league as Abercrombie or Castell with regard to storytelling skills as well as the story he has to tell. Oh well, tastes will differ, I reckon ...
 
I was going to come back to this thread and say how much I'd been enjoying it after we got past the duke's banquet - the story really starts to get moving when rescuing the young girl. That moment with the candy, the New Greatcoats, and the 'caring family', were all great.

Then Falcio has a duel with a pair of assassins - and stops the action to spend two-and-a-half pages explaining how they use a poison dust to incapacitate people, and then why Greatcoats are immune to it. If that seemed redundant then it was made doubly so by Falcio suddenly being jumped and knocked out - clearly Sebastien didn't want the character to determine the story.

I could forgive all that - it's already been established that the poor lad is missing a dedicated editor.

But then we got to the torture section. Against Falcio it was mild and understated. Then we got to the tortured horse - any sense of realism disappeared and Castell aimed to sicken. Well, it worked - I closed the book, put it down, and don't think I'll pick it up again.
 
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