Lightning Source vs Createspace

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm at the point of deciding how to go about publishing paperbacks of Inish Carraig and thought the process and decisions involved might be interesting to others - plus input would be handy for me.

My situation - I have a chain of bookstores who will take direct supply from me but who will not order through Lightning Source. Waterstones in Belfast will also stock it and prefer to order through LS but will, I think, take a direct supply, too. Waterstones through the UK will order from LS but not from Createspace.

1. Why have a paperback? I can't believe the demand for little Inish - I've had emails/messages from multiple people checking there will be a paperback, I have a local book chain wanting to stock it, I have a few preorders from people locally who want it, and I have some conventions anc functions coming up where I can sell stock. In short, I think there are sales to be had for it. And, also, I want a paperback copy for myself and I really, really want to be able to gift some to the betas and get the chance to say an overdue thanks. So, the decision was made that I'd go for a paperback edition and Gary is formatting the files for me (which are easily transferable to both companies - they work on the same dimensions and a lot of people use both - see in a minute.)

2. Pros/cons

Createspace are linked to Amazon and supply quickly through them. They provide an ISBN although that ISBN can only be used for the CS edition. They provide author copies that the author can sell direct.

Their quality is not thought to be just as good, however (although adequate, by most accounts). They cannot be ordered by bookstores.


Lightning Source allow returns, so bookstores will use them to supply direct orders. They are linked to Imgrams so widely available. Their quality is good.

They take longer to supply from Amazon and one of my key clients - see above - won't use them for order replenishment, meaning I still need to buy a stock supply. Their processes are also trickier.

3. Costs

This is the biggy for me. I'm doing this on a shoestring with some backing but it's not endless.

LS have a number of start up costs, adding up to about 100 dollars - set up fee, mandatory proof copy for thirty dollars, and a charge to be maintained in print each year. They also do not provide an ISBN so that's another one hundred and forty quid up front. For 100 books it will cost me about £290 gbp plus the start up costs - about 490 in total.

Createspace have no set up costs and provide an ISBN. 100 books on the same basis will come to about £310 gbp.

So what to do? For now, I'm leaning towards going with Createspace in the first instance. I will lose the bookstores orders but will gain quicker sales fulfillment with Amazon where I think most will be ordered from. If it takes off, I can always decide to go with both (although that filters my sales ranking as the ISBN will be different.) but the start up costs are equivalent to 75 books which would generate enough sales to fund another 100.

Any thoughts? Or does my thinking seem sound?

 

[HareBrain]

For what it's worth (a great deal less than 2 cents, probably) I've found the quality of CS slightly better than LS. But that's based on a very small sample.

£3 a copy sounds pretty good, though. I guess that's the advantage of a shorter book. TGP, when I briefly looked into it, would be at least £6.

I see no reason why you shouldn't do both.

(although that filters my sales ranking as the ISBN will be different.)

You don't have to use CS's free ISBN, and if you're thinking of using LS too at some point, I'd pay for one, then you won't have that problem.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

For what it's worth (a great deal less than 2 cents, probably) I've found the quality of CS slightly better than LS. But that's based on a very small sample.

£3 a copy sounds pretty good, though. I guess that's the advantage of a shorter book. TGP, when I briefly looked into it, would be at least £6.

I see no reason why you shouldn't do both.



You don't have to use CS's free ISBN, and if you're thinking of using LS too at some point, I'd pay for one, then you won't have that problem.

That's true but isbns in the UK can only be bought in tens and cost 140, which is a big part of my budget....

Page length does make a difference, for sure (and these are approximate, based on Abendau and the relevant word counts.)

 

[HareBrain]

Ah. Can you then sell them on?

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Ah. Can you then sell them on?

No - publisher specific. So if I knew eg that I'd sp Waters it might make sense but it depends how this goes.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

@Jo Zebedee
Gosh, it's peanuts compare to what DIY printing used to be and makes the remaining "traditional paper" Vanity Publishers look like scam artists that ought to be closed for theft.

Your thinking and research looks good. Why not start with CS and if demand is obvious and/or quality isn't enough on CS later add LS too?
I've seen the same book at same time new in Limerick from both UK and US traditional publishers. No doubt the US Edition bypasses the almost wholesale monopoly Easons have had in the past here.

 

[HareBrain]

Thinking about it, though, which sales ranking would be affected? Where would there be a sales ranking apart from Amazon, which I imagine would use CS anyway?

Unless you're talking about the NY Times bestseller lists ...

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I'm not sure how Easons are affected - but they will take direct supply from me (in the north only for now, though.)

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Thinking about it, though, which sales ranking would be affected? Where would there be a sales ranking apart from Amazon, which I imagine would use CS anyway?

Unless you're talking about the NY Times bestseller lists ...

Exactly. I'm not expecting to hit Nielson's. If I do, Tor might come knocking first...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

My advice would be to combine the two. If the books cost you less through CS you can pass that savings on to readers by putting a lower price on the book at Amazon and still get the same royalties. Lower price could equal more sales, thus more money for you, and also higher sales rank.

Then use LS where necessary.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

My advice would be to combine the two. If the books cost you less through CS you can pass that savings on to readers by putting a lower price on the book at Amazon and still get the same royalties. Lower price could equal more sales, thus more money for you, and also higher sales rank.

Then use LS where necessary.

I think longterm that's where I'd like to go but, given budget constraints, I'll launch with CS first. I've managed to bring the retail to 7.99 gbp (about 14 dollars, I think) which is a pound less than I'd originally thought but any lower is difficult, given the cut the retailers will take. That seems to be line with paperbacks at the moment.

I'm very glad of my years in business right now, and pricing experience. Not easy.

 

[mgilmour]

After a lot of research I ended up going with Createspace.
The reason for this was that:
1. The quality was good.
2. No real setup costs.
3. Linked to Amazon
Also, buy your own ISBN numbers as you are now your own publisher. They are really cheap and if you read about other authors experience they all advise having your own ISBN.

 

[Ogma]

If you own your own ISBN's you're the publisher of record. Using Createspace's numbers means they're the publisher of record. I've heard of one or two authors using the same ISBN (that they own) for the Createspace & LS version. I don't know how technically acceptable that is but you certainly can't do it if you are using a Createspace ISBN. Certainly the cover size etc. would have to match.

Getting ISBN's in the UK is a bit more convoluted than the US. Also, there's the added cost of sending a copy to the British Library. Plus certain other libraries in Britain and Ireland can demand a copy.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

One hundred and forty five pounds is not 'really cheap' to me. It's the cost of one of my kid's school uniforms. I think it's another example of the book industry failing to keep up with the changes - a book of ten isbns working out at fifteen quid each is good value for a publisher. But I'm looking to publish one book, as do many other self publishers. Then, it effectively becomes one hundred and forty five quid for one book.

I am aware that going with Createspace's names them the publisher. But, here's the thing - the only people who will ever look at who the publisher is are bookshops thinking of ordering the title. And they don't order from Createspace. So, for me, it's not a priority. Should things change in the future and this all become a bigger deal - more sp titles, or extended print runs, for instance, I might change and purchase isbns and reissue. That's an easy process and makes me the publisher of note. But for now I can't see that the benefit outweighs a pretty hefty cost. A quick google tells you that the advice on it is very mixed, depending on what your aims are for sp - if, like me, it's primarily Amazon sales with some direct supply to bookstores, CS is all I need. If it becomes bigger later, then presumably the book sales will have covered the cost and I'll do what
Teresa suggests and run both CS and LS under my own isbn.

@ratsy - you're right, CS isbn can only be used for that edition, but if I were to purchase an isbn I could use it for any edition of the unchanged paperback.

Also, isbns are not a legal requirement. I'm not sure everyone knows that. I need one because I have retail outlets lined up which will require one for their systems but it's not actually required legally. If you don't expect to sell outside of Amazon and your own direct sales, there's no need to use one at all.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Don't have much (well, anything) helpful to add, but it's impressive you've got the bookshops eating out of your hands already.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Don't have much (well, anything) helpful to add, but it's impressive you've got the bookshops eating out of your hands already.

Not sure eating is the word...

I'll be honest and admit I had some contacts which I used to get the toe in the door. Also, if Abendau hadn't been trad, no amount of contacts would have got me anywhere. Since then, though, I've worked with the bookshops, promoting, being an easy to work with author, thanking them for their support etc.

It helps that Inish is a locally based title and the local chain, Easons, in particular are strong on supporting local authors. But, even so, that was my piece of luck, getting in the door. It does cost, in terms of losing some margin but overall I've found it something that offers another tier of visibility and makes me feel like a Proper Author.

 

[ratsy]

@ratsy - you're right, CS isbn can only be used for that edition, but if I were to purchase an isbn I could use it for any edition of the unchanged paperback.

Hey, I wasn't even here! ...but I am watching the thread with interest

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Oops, sorry @Ogma. I think ratsy had a similar avatars once.

 

[Ogma]

No problem Jo.

 

[TK Greenleaf]

I've used CreateSpace and am happy with their quality, price and rapid delivery. That said, I'm also going to use Ingram because of the bookstores-not-ordering-from-Amazon issue. I invested in a block of ISBNs because I plan to indie-publish more books in the future.

One note about CreateSpace... Amazon won't necessarily link the print edition of your book to the digital edition (showing them as two purchase options on the same page) unless you nudge them to do so. In my case all it took was one email and they responded within a day.