Info from American Chronners who fish/know about fishing

[Phyrebrat]

Hi,

I am writing a story for an antho and my character fishes for pike. The country setting is not defined and should be able to pass for UK or USA.

From my misspent youth on the riverbank and lakes here, I have a good knowledge of angling, particularly where pike are concerned but I need to find a fish that could be feasibly used as deadbait in both the US and UK. I would have my character use the European sprat (it's like a small herring or sardine - sprattus sprattus) but I don't think they're available in US fishmongers. There are plenty of other deadbaits he could use in this country, so I was wondering if any American Chron folks could advise what deadbait* fish you use in the North for pike/pickerel/muskellunge, and I can pick one that I would have access to in the UK.

Many thanks,

pH

(*not interested in lures such as spoons and plugs; It has to be deadbait)

 

[ratsy]

Phyre, couldn't you use minnows?

 

[Phyrebrat]

Minnows are too small, ratsy - they're good for bass-like fish, but for pike he needs something much more substantial; otherwise, minnows would be perfect.

pH

 

[tinkerdan]

no idea never fished for bass::but::

http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/fishing-with-live-bait.html

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I don't know if you mean the sort of pike we have here, but my folks caught them with worms and salmon eggs, not fish. They didn't mean to, as they didn't want to catch pike -- they were fishing for trout, but unfortunately there were only pike in the lake at that time. And one catfish.

This was an unfortunate turn of events that should have been foreseen by the Fish and Wildlife Service, who are the ones who stocked the pike in that lake. They swore up and down that pike were vegetarian, all those huge teeth notwithstanding. Years later, they admitted that the pike were not vegetarians, and had indeed eaten all the trout in the lake. Then they declared the pike a nuisance (which my parents could have told them years earlier) and got rid of them.

I would guess you could use perch, though, if minnows are too small for your purposes. Or waterdogs, if it doesn't have to be a fish:

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gone-fishin/2014/03/catch-and-keep-live-bait

 

[Phyrebrat]

Thanks all. I'm ashamedly geeky about freshwater fish of the UK and Western Europe but when it comes to America I'm a bit out of my depth (ho ho ho) aside form garpike, pike, paddlefish and bass...

TDZ, I used to keep a pike - juveniles love worms and so on, but for the big yins you need a large deadbait. After about two months I had to start buying goldfish as she wouldn't touch the worms. Oddly enough, goldfish were far cheaper than buying worms! Pike grow huge in trout fisheries and in the UK most require you to kill them if you accidentally land one. Pike eggs are incredibly sticky and so wading waterfowl that have picked some up on their feet can transfer them to nearby ponds unawares. The fact that they thought pike were vegetarian is hilarious. I was going to opt for perch - I didn't know if you all called them the same - but would have rather stuck to dead sea fish as they stink and attract the pike, plus are easily available at fishmongers (plus I also used to keep a small shoal of 6 perch and the thought of 'baiting' them hurts my soul )

Using livebait is illegal in the UK these days on most (if not all) fisheries.

Anyway... the good news is, another plot stumbling block can be used to make the deadbait redundant, so now I am very happy as he's using human tissue as bait.

pH
(I fully appreciate my fish nerdery is now out in the open having admitted to keeping perch and pike - I will also admit to keeping trout, salmon, chub and barbel - my house used to look like London Aquarium )

 

[Ray McCarthy]

The fact that they thought pike were vegetarian is hilarious

Yes, I find that unbelievable. They are monsters!

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Yes, my parents found it rather unbelievable, too. The story was that they had put the pike into the lake to eat the algae.

 

[Parson]

Hi Phyrebrat, I have done a great deal of fishing for pike. My favorite is Northern Pike. We have never used dead bait. We would fish with live chubs, if we were going for trophy size fish (sucker chubs, 6-12 in long) and we have seen good results with leeches. But we caught most of theme on spoons and spinners often tipped with a minnow. Dead bait was used for cat fish. But if blue nose chubs are available in England, this would be a fish I would try it with. ---- Any particular reason you are not using a spoon? (I'm partial to the Redeye or a red and white Daredevel.)

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I begin to wonder why it was, exactly, that my parents were so against pike. Apparently, from what I've heard in recent years, they're the only ones who didn't consider it an eating fish.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I never heard of people here, or when I lived in UK, eating pike. Is the N. American one the same fish? My UK Grandfather was a very keen fisherman, I often went with him. He may have been prejudiced being a fly fisherman and mostly fishing for trout. Books I've read have the same attitude.

 

[HareBrain]

They are edible. I've heard the flavour described as "muddy".

There's that famous Ted Hughes poem:

Pike, three inches long, perfect
In batter with ketchup

 

[Phyrebrat]

Pike are a delicacy! Le brochet anyone?

HB; a pond I fished, whose muscular tench and flexible fries...

pH

 

[Phyrebrat]

Hi Phyrebrat, I have done a great deal of fishing for pike. My favorite is Northern Pike. We have never used dead bait. We would fish with live chubs, if we were going for trophy size fish (sucker chubs, 6-12 in long) and we have seen good results with leeches. But we caught most of theme on spoons and spinners often tipped with a minnow. Dead bait was used for cat fish. But if blue nose chubs are available in England, this would be a fish I would try it with. ---- Any particular reason you are not using a spoon? (I'm partial to the Redeye or a red and white Daredevel.)

Sorry for the double post, but I had to answer Parson properly, and couldn't do so on the hop whilst teaching.

The character starts off using a spoon or a plug, but he needs to be deadbait fishing so he can be still and silent on the lake. Also, as you might see in crits, he's now using ladies fingers - and I don't mean okra

We have chub in the UK, but they're very large - it is quite rare to catch smaller ones - and they're specimen fish, so it would seem wrong using them as bait.

pH

 

[Parson]

I never heard of people here, or when I lived in UK, eating pike. Is the N. American one the same fish? My UK Grandfather was a very keen fisherman, I often went with him. He may have been prejudiced being a fly fisherman and mostly fishing for trout. Books I've read have the same attitude.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...428n2awjmrL7YO_rE=&docid=GJ-bnNadOA1skM&itg=1

A link to a picture. I'm not very good at this media stuff. But we have eaten many, many Northern Pike. The taste is not muddy! But they have many bones which are not easily cut out of the fish.

Sorry for the double post, but I had to answer Parson properly, and couldn't do so on the hop whilst teaching.

The character starts off using a spoon or a plug, but he needs to be deadbait fishing so he can be still and silent on the lake. Also, as you might see in crits, he's now using ladies fingers - and I don't mean okra

We have chub in the UK, but they're very large - it is quite rare to catch smaller ones - and they're specimen fish, so it would seem wrong using them as bait.

pH

I wonder if we are talking about the same fish. Northern Pike are Alpha predators, I have my doubts if they eat carrion at all.


Edit: Well you've made me google this, and we are indeed speaking of the same fish and dead baits are used. So I guess my supposed expertise was less than I thought. That being the case, I fairly sure that most bait fishes that you would use would be the same here.