Johann Wolfgang Goethe (1749-1832)

[Connavar]

Goethe is alongside with Poe my best,favourite classic 1700s-1800s author and i try to read everything i can find in swedish translation since german language is very close to sweidish i dont read him in english translations.

Gollum asked me in other thread what i had read of . I have read The Sorrows of Young Werther , Faust(all its parts), several collections of his poetry.

What about others classic readers here in Chrons, what have you guys read? What do you think of Goethe?

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm afraid I've only read Elective Affinities, which seemed like a mediocre romance intended to explore something of chemical bonding through metaphor. I don't think it was a very good example of his work to try.

I know I've read a version of Faust, but I suspect that it was the Christopher Marlowe version.

I remember in my late teens and early twenties I made an effort to read a lot of classic authors, and Goethe made my list. As above, though, I struggled to find something to represent his best work.

 

[GOLLUM]

Elective Affinities is Goethe's third novel and I have to confess to not having read it yet myself. I know it has a problematic history amongst critics who have debated everything from what predominant prose style it has adopted to the meaning of the text. It is regarded as amongst his better works but does not seem to garner the level of Kudos as works like Faust and The Sorrows of Young Werther. Goethe himself considered it to be his best book....go figure. It is also held up as a good example of early German Romanticism.

I would recommend Faust (especially part 1), Sorrows of Young Werther albeit that is seen as one of his less mature works when he was still cutting his literary teeth (hugely popular as it was), Willhelm Meister and Selected Poetry of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe published by Penguin; an excellent introduction to his poetry.

Additionally if you want to better understand his emergence from the Sturm und Drang (Storm and Stress when he wrote Young Werther) movement of the 1770s (out of which German Romanticism evolved) to his embracing of Weimar Classicism (when he wrote Elective Affinities, Faust part 2 etc), Italian Journey (travelogue) is also recommended. I happen to have just purchased a reprint from Penguin of this.

 

[Extollager]

I haven't, but has anyone read his Fairy Tale, about the Green Snake? I believe I have this in a Penguin Classic paperback of German Romantic fairy stories.

 

[GOLLUM]

I haven't, but has anyone read his Fairy Tale, about the Green Snake? I believe I have this in a Penguin Classic paperback of German Romantic fairy stories.

The full title that I have in German is The Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily. I have read this in German and it's a classic of its kind as well as being an important piece in the development of German Romanticism. I think your version might be The Fairy Tale in English from the Penguin 2000 edition of Romantic Fairy Tales. It contains 4 classics of German Romanticism Is that correct? I think I mentioned this anthology on another thread somewhere a while ago and may have been planning to purcahse a copy? It (Goethe's tale) is definitely worth reading.

A quick check on Google reveals it was also released in English by the publisher Steiner Books as The Fairy Tale of The Green Snake and the Beautiful Lily. Perhaps the most complete title. There may be other versions in English of this published over the years.

 

[Extollager]

I think your version might be The Fairy Tale in English from the Penguin 2000 edition of Romantic Fairy Tales. It contains 4 classics of German Romanticism Is that correct?

Yes, that's what I have.

 

[GOLLUM]

Yes, that's what I have.
View attachment 23260

Thanks.

I checked my English version of Sorrows of Young Werther and noticed it has some other stories including The Fairy Tale. I should probably read it again.

 

[Connavar]

Goethe is a very special to me because he is the first classic author from early 1800s or earlier that i started to read as much i could, that i had so much respect, enjoyment reading. He is not as fully translated in swedish as he is in english thanks to Penguin type publishers. Some of Goethe novels,poem collections are from swedish translations from late 1800s, early 1900s so its not easy to get alot of his books for me.

I enjoyed Sorrow of Young Werter in school and literary classes because its the typical romantic litterature period novel and i enjoyed the world view, the philosophy of the romantic era lit, their type of hero, the Werter type, the nature imagary and everything that makes that period,movement standout. It is not his best but its the perfect first Goethe book to read.

But it was Faust that made Goethe a literary giant in my eyes, it is not easy read when you are not half as well read,brilliantly schooled as Goethe apparently was. I was impressed by the craft, every thought, idea,classic reference he put in. It is easily the smartest play or novel i have read. Like he got in every classical knowledge,mythology he had learned.

 

[GOLLUM]

But it was Faust that made Goethe a literary giant in my eyes, it is not easy read when you are not half as well read,brilliantly schooled as Goethe apparently was. I was impressed by the craft, every thought, idea,classic reference he put in. It is easily the smartest play or novel i have read. Like he got in every classical knowledge,mythology he had learned.

I agree that Faust is his greatest single work of what I have so far read. I'm not necessarily impressed by an author if they can seemingly cram into the text every single bit of erudition they can muster unless the text itself blends into a coherent whole, which in Goethe's case is fairly evident. It is little wonder to me that he is still seen as the greatest German writer to date and let's face it there have been a lot of very fine ones!

You are right about Goethe's formal education as well. He quite literally had the bet education that money could buy at the time. Of course it also helps that he was a genius...

 

[Connavar]

I agree that Faust is his greatest single work of what I have so far read. I'm not necessarily impressed by an author if they can seemingly cram into the text every single bit of erudition they can muster unless the text itself blends into a coherent whole, which in Goethe's case is fairly evident. It is little wonder to me that he is still seen as the greatest German writer to date and let's face it there have been a lot of very fine ones!

You are right about Goethe's formal education as well. He quite literally had the bet education that money could buy at the time. Of course it also helps that he was a genius...

Yeah its easy to cram in every single bit of erudition you can but to use it and make it work so well as a piece of literature is the real impressive thing.

Reading it i also thought it is a genuis at work here because alot of people has had best education money can buy but not many writers are literary geniuses because of that. Also i think i like about Goethe that he might not be the best prose stylist but his substance,writing overall makes him special.

He also taught me as less experienced reader that there are more type of literary geniuses than the type of Lord Dunsany, Poe who are prose stylist, wordsmits but some are for what they write and not how they write word for word.

 

[GOLLUM]

Yes I think one of Goethe's strengths with Faust in particular actually was his ability to adopt multiple literary styles whilst at the same time ensuring that substance still won over style; the main tenet you may be interested to know in fact that can be found in Goethe's 'Theory on Art' (where substance prevails over form).

Thanks for the chat.

Nite.

 

[GOLLUM]

I enjoyed Sorrow of Young Werter in school and literary classes because its the typical romantic litterature period novel and i enjoyed the world view, the philosophy of the romantic era lit, their type of hero, the Werter type, the nature imagary and everything that makes that period,movement standout. It is not his best but its the perfect first Goethe book to read.

If you like German Romantic literature you may also want to check out Ludwig Tieck, Novalis, Von Eichendorf, Friedrich de la Motte Fouqué, Achim Von Arnim, Heinrich Heine and Clemens Brentano and if you want to better understand the philosophy behind Romanticism then look to possibly Hegel first and foremost but also further back to people like von Schelegel and von Schelling. Schiller the German poet and great friend of Goethe also needs to be mentioned here.

 

[Extollager]

Herewith a thread on this German author and theorist.

Would someone volunteer to start us with recommendations of "Goethe for beginners"?

We don't have this book yet:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0199689253/?tag=brite-21

 

[j d worthington]

I'd suggest, for those no alienated by poetry, a few of his briefer pieces first; things such as "The Bride of Corinth" or even "The Erl-King". There are also several different selections from Faust (usually concentrating on Part 1, which is admittedly the more cohesive as far as actual plot goes), and some of these would be a good place to start as well. Then there's The Sorrows of Young Werther, which should appeal to anyone with a Romantic or Gothic sensibility....

 

[Alexandros Liakopoulos]

I'd suggest, for those no alienated by poetry, a few of his briefer pieces first; things such as "The Bride of Corinth" or even "The Erl-King". There are also several different selections from Faust (usually concentrating on Part 1, which is admittedly the more cohesive as far as actual plot goes), and some of these would be a good place to start as well. Then there's The Sorrows of Young Werther, which should appeal to anyone with a Romantic or Gothic sensibility....

You know that "The Sorrows of Young Werther" were that powerful that besides that made Goethe well recognized all around Europe, also stimulated a "wave of suicides" in several countries when published? For this reason several European states banned the book for quite some years. Then again, this policy only worked in favor of the book.

Goethe was one of the greatest minds and ever lived and beyond his literary work, his scientific work is also very important. His "Theory of Colours" changed the way we see things. It has been digitilized by Google recently and you can find an online version of it on PDF (tried to post a link but it's not allowed for I am a new member).

 

[Extollager]

Welcome, Alexandros! And thank you for your posting.

Thanks, J. D., for the suggestions.

Has anyone read his fairy-tale about the green snake?

 

[GOLLUM]

You know that "The Sorrows of Young Werther" were that powerful that besides that made Goethe well recognized all around Europe, also stimulated a "wave of suicides" in several countries when published? For this reason several European states banned the book for quite some years. Then again, this policy only worked in favor of the book.

Goethe was one of the greatest minds and ever lived and beyond his literary work, his scientific work is also very important. His "Theory of Colours" changed the way we see things. It has been digitilized by Google recently and you can find an online version of it on PDF (tried to post a link but it's not allowed for I am a new member).

Yes I did know about the suicides that followed publication of the book. It rather gives away the ending (for those who have not yet read the book) but it is a relevant point for anyone interested in the development of Goethe's career. As you say that book really catapulted him to literary stardom at the time.

Your point regarding 'Goethe The Scientist' is a very important one and is something that is often overlooked, not so so much by academics or scholars who study Goethe but certainly by the mainstream. It also further confirms for me what a remarkable individual he was.

Welcome to the forums...

 

[GOLLUM]

Herewith a thread on this German author and theorist.

Would someone volunteer to start us with recommendations of "Goethe for beginners"?

We actually already had a Goethe thread I moved to this subforum when we first set it up. I will try to merge that thread with this one.

 

[Extollager]

We actually already had a Goethe thread I moved to this subforum when we first set it up. I will try to merge that thread with this one.

Thanks, Gollum. I looked, but missed that... even though I'd contributed to the earlier thread!

 

[Alexandros Liakopoulos]

Yes I did know about the suicides that followed publication of the book. It rather gives away the ending (for those who have not yet read the book) but it is a relevant point for anyone interested in the development of Goethe's career. As you say that book really catapulted him to literary stardom at the time.

Your point regarding 'Goethe The Scientist' is a very important one and is something that is often overlooked, not so so much by academics or scholars who study Goethe but certainly by the mainstream. It also further confirms for me what a remarkable individual he was.

Welcome to the forums...

Thanks for welcoming me and your comments. Just a point: Goethe lived in an era where, still, being a cultivated mind meant that one needed to have a spheric knowledge about literary everything: from music, powetry, philosophy and the arts, to physics, biology, optics, chemistry, mathematics, history, etc, etc. I would more characterize him as a polymath - one of the last of this kind - than bearely a scientist.

In our time of ultimate specialization and minimum general knowledge and cultivation, polymaths are an extinct species, yet, till the middle of the twentienth century this was the only category that distinguished a really cultivated person than all the rest. Unfortunately, in our times Kenneth Boulding's fears about lack of substantial wisdom among ultimately specialized people has become a reality. For Boulding's fears check on "General System Theory - The Skeleton of Science" (1956).