Call for Editor

[Tim Murray]

After looking at everything, I've decided to see about retaining a pro editor. The only way I can do it is to pay for one chapter at a time. It will take longer, but it will improve my writing. I am not eschewing any chronner's great advice. I am trying to properly speed up this train.

I would appreciate any advice or offers, should you feel so inclined.

 

[Jackie Bee]

How much are you willing to pay for a chapter? I worked with a few editors, they charge different rates. I could recommend you one or two of them.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

I doubt you're likely to find anyone who would take on a project in that manner, and you'd be wise to be a bit leery of someone who would. A developmental editor would need to see the whole thing in order to judge what needed to be done, and even copy editing and proofreading depend a great deal on context and the overall picture to get the best results. I, for instance, wouldn't want to tackle something one chapter at a time because it's necessary to keep the author's quirks and preferences in mind through the whole work, and it would be too easy to miss (or even add) inconsistencies that way. And that's not even mentioning continuity issues that would slip through because there were three other projects in between your chapters' editing.

Editing does not necessarily have to be a huge expense -- there are a number of reasonably priced editors around here. But trying to do it piecemeal would almost certainly cause your train to derail, rather than go faster. You'd get a few chapters done and discover you needed to change something that required going back over something that was already "finished". And even when you got it all finished, you'd still need an editor to go over the whole thing at once.

 

[Tim Murray]

I doubt you're likely to find anyone who would take on a project in that manner, and you'd be wise to be a bit leery of someone who would. A developmental editor would need to see the whole thing in order to judge what needed to be done, and even copy editing and proofreading depend a great deal on context and the overall picture to get the best results. I, for instance, wouldn't want to tackle something one chapter at a time because it's necessary to keep the author's quirks and preferences in mind through the whole work, and it would be too easy to miss (or even add) inconsistencies that way. And that's not even mentioning continuity issues that would slip through because there were three other projects in between your chapters' editing.

Editing does not necessarily have to be a huge expense -- there are a number of reasonably priced editors around here. But trying to do it piecemeal would almost certainly cause your train to derail, rather than go faster. You'd get a few chapters done and discover you needed to change something that required going back over something that was already "finished". And even when you got it all finished, you'd still need an editor to go over the whole thing at once.

Where do I find these editors? Should I go into the Editing section?

 

[Droflet]

Tim, writing a novel is not a sprint, it's a marathon. I understand your impatience, I've been there. If you are serious about this writing gig then you'll need to put in the hard yards. Read what Dusty has said. She's been doing this for a long time. If you give this time, you will see the improvements. Your call of course.

 

[Tim Murray]

Tim, writing a novel is not a sprint, it's a marathon. I understand your impatience, I've been there. If you are serious about this writing gig then you'll need to put in the hard yards. Read what Dusty has said. She's been doing this for a long time. If you give this time, you will see the improvements. Your call of course.

You're right on that one, it feels like forever sometimes. I realized I am carrying the same mistakes I'm correcting now into the finished sequel, (first draft) and the second one. (two thirds completed) So I decided to concentrate on getting Thumar up to snuff. Thanks for the support

 

[Droflet]

No worries. Support, Tim, is what this place has always been about. Hang it there buddy.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Drof's right, Tim. It's a long haul. My advice is to get Thumar as good as you can make it, as a whole novel, using help from here and anywhere else you can get it. During that time, keep putting away a few dollars a month (the ones you might be planning on spending on an editor now). By the time you have the book hammered into shape you might find you've enough to pay for one of the really excellent editors that frequent Chrons to look at the whole novel.

It will be much cheaper and more productive in the long run, because the less polishing an editor has to do, the less time they'll have to spend and the less it will cost you. Advice on here is free.

I don't know what age you are (and I'm not asking!), but I started writing at 49. I submitted my first novel to publishers after less than 4 months - got rejected, obviously - then a wonderful person @Jo Zebedee) found me, picked me up, dusted me off, and pointed me at Chrons. It didn't take many critiques on here for me to reach the stage you're at now. The 'OMG this is going to take forever' stage. I'm 51 now and the novel still isn't ready to sub (although I succumbed to temptation and put it into the Hodderscape open thingy). I feel I'm running out of time. At my age, how many novels do I have left in me?

I suspect you're a fair bit younger than me. Comfort yourself with the thought that you at least have time left to you to do this well.

It's worth it in the long run, believe me. If and when you publish, by whatever route, you'll have a novel you can be really proud of.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

No one is running out of time. There is no time limit to being a writer. And 51 is certainly no barrier.

Right, after that little slap, onto the OP. Bottom line? An editor is not what you need if you want to be a writer, at this stage. There is no shortcut to learning self editing skills. You need them to become a writer - at least rudimentary ones that will take you within copy editing reach.

Most editors give you back a rewrite. Mine - Teresa Edgerton - gives me back notes asking for full additional chapters and what not. And you'll need to know how to do that rewrite.

But there's another key reason I don't think your approach will work - grammar wise you're pretty strong. It'a things like storytwlling, tension, meanings behind the scene,point of view discipline that were commented on. An editor can't fix those, not without rewriting it - and if that's what you want, someone to simply write the darn thing for you from your ideas, then it's a ghostwriter you need, not an editor.

Sorry. as others have said, this is a slow business, frustratingly so. But it is what it is.

 

[Dan Jones]

Tim, yeah it's a slog but it's worth it. Unless you don't think so, in which case why are you doing this!?

Something which hasn't been mentioned yet here is the option of, if you're suffering from fatigue, to drop your WIP and start on something completely new, whether it be a novel, a poem, a screenplay even.

I flogged my first novel for 4 years and, while Ive not given up on it, six months ago I decided I had to get a change of scenery and put it on the back-burner. Since then I've written a novella, a handful of short stories, started a new novel and even been invited to contribute to a horror compilation, and I've got a short story in the final review stage of a magazine. I've even won a couple of Challenges on Chrons. I'm not sure that would have happened if I hadn't parked my old novel because my writing wouldn't have grown and evolved.

It might seem like anathema to put aside the thing you've slaved over for God knows how long, but I can tell you from experience that it was highly liberating and has made me improve my writing immensely. And I've promised myself that I will return to my epic fantasy, because I have it on good authority that it's (probably!) worth saving, but the time away from it has been like a breath of fresh air.

 

[The Judge]

Just to echo everyone else, I don't think a professional editor is what you need right now, especially if you can only afford to have one chapter edited at a time.

What I'd suggest is that you find a writing group. Ideally, you want a WG that is local to you, where the other members are either writing SFF or are keen readers of it, and are themselves slightly above your present level of writing -- local allows you to meet and socialise (and eat cake!) and generally natter about writing, SFFers so they understand the tropes and aren't afraid of SF terms and ideas, and above you so they have made the mistakes you are making and know how to avoid them. That's the ideal, but an online group of SFFers is nearly as good, or a real group of interesting non-SFFers can be a real help.

If you can't find a WG, then the next option is to start one, which is what many of us here on Chrons have done, some of us in real life, some of us only online. Those WGs have originated by members first swapping stories to beta-read -- in effect doing critiques off-Chrons and helping each other. There are drawbacks to beta-reading. It requires reciprocity -- you must be prepared to put work in to help the others as much as they help you -- and I know of one member who put in hours of work only to receive a very perfunctory critique in return, which rather put him off the whole idea. Also, there are different kinds of critiquers and different levels of expertise, and someone who is happy to help might in fact be of no help at all because he/she has no real idea. However, beta-reading is a good way of working out whether anyone else would be a good critiquing fit for you. If you can find someone, then you can try and take things further from there, perhaps arranging to swap chapters on a regular basis.

So what I'd suggest is that at some point you put up a thread asking for beta readers for your first 3 or 4 chapters. But not yet. Beta reading is a time-consuming exercise, and before most members will want to get involved with you, they'll want to know more about your writing and how you interact here, how you react to critiques, and also whether you are able to offer critiquing in return and to what standard. Basically, settle down, join in, have a look at the Writing Challenges and join in there, put another piece up in Critiques. And most importantly, have a look at other pieces in Critiques, make notes of what you would say, then read the other comments and see whether you agree with them or not, and if not analyse why not -- is it just a difference of opinion, or is it the others have picked up on things you've missed? Critiquing the work of other people is perhaps the best thing you (ie "one") can do to improve your own writing at this stage -- it's remarkable how easy it is to spot mistakes other people make that you then realise you've been making all along and not noticed!

 

[Brian G Turner]

After looking at everything, I've decided to see about retaining a pro editor. The only way I can do it is to pay for one chapter at a time. It will take longer, but it will improve my writing. I am not eschewing any chronner's great advice. I am trying to properly speed up this train.

I would appreciate any advice or offers, should you feel so inclined.

You are not going to speed up this train. To write commercial-standard fiction requires years of learning.

That means making the effort to study how to write, and read widely in your target genre - and beyond it.

No one can wave a magic wand to do this for you. You have to put the time and effort in yourself, and prepare for the long haul.

 

[Tim Murray]

Drof's right, Tim. It's a long haul. My advice is to get Thumar as good as you can make it, as a whole novel, using help from here and anywhere else you can get it. During that time, keep putting away a few dollars a month (the ones you might be planning on spending on an editor now). By the time you have the book hammered into shape you might find you've enough to pay for one of the really excellent editors that frequent Chrons to look at the whole novel.

It will be much cheaper and more productive in the long run, because the less polishing an editor has to do, the less time they'll have to spend and the less it will cost you. Advice on here is free.

I don't know what age you are (and I'm not asking!), but I started writing at 49. I submitted my first novel to publishers after less than 4 months - got rejected, obviously - then a wonderful person @Jo Zebedee) found me, picked me up, dusted me off, and pointed me at Chrons. It didn't take many critiques on here for me to reach the stage you're at now. The 'OMG this is going to take forever' stage. I'm 51 now and the novel still isn't ready to sub (although I succumbed to temptation and put it into the Hodderscape open thingy). I feel I'm running out of time. At my age, how many novels do I have left in me?

I suspect you're a fair bit younger than me. Comfort yourself with the thought that you at least have time left to you to do this well.

It's worth it in the long run, believe me. If and when you publish, by whatever route, you'll have a novel you can be really proud of.

Thanks for the compliment, I just turned 58 this year. I feel young (sometimes) and I have to get over this, how long will this take?

 

[Tim Murray]

Tim, yeah it's a slog but it's worth it. Unless you don't think so, in which case why are you doing this!?

Something which hasn't been mentioned yet here is the option of, if you're suffering from fatigue, to drop your WIP and start on something completely new, whether it be a novel, a poem, a screenplay even.

I flogged my first novel for 4 years and, while Ive not given up on it, six months ago I decided I had to get a change of scenery and put it on the back-burner. Since then I've written a novella, a handful of short stories, started a new novel and even been invited to contribute to a horror compilation, and I've got a short story in the final review stage of a magazine. I've even won a couple of Challenges on Chrons. I'm not sure that would have happened if I hadn't parked my old novel because my writing wouldn't have grown and evolved.

It might seem like anathema to put aside the thing you've slaved over for God knows how long, but I can tell you from experience that it was highly liberating and has made me improve my writing immensely. And I've promised myself that I will return to my epic fantasy, because I have it on good authority that it's (probably!) worth saving, but the time away from it has been like a breath of fresh air.

Thanks for the advice. I have done that to a degree. I started a short story and put the third novel on the shelf for many reasons. One is that I'm writing it using the same mistakes I am correcting now. I know that getting my prologue up to standard will improve the re-write of the rest of Thumar.

 

[tinkerdan]

I finished and published my first novel when I was 61. I'm not going to say when I started that novel because I don't want to freak you out and discourage you. I was a bit younger than that.

What I will say is that at the point I thought I was finished I had over 400k words and I handed it to someone I felt would have a critical eye and tell me the truth. I wasn't paying them, but they offered to help. And because I wasn't paying them there was about a two month period where I didn't hear anything and I had to call them to arrange a time we could get together.

When I saw the 50 pages they had marked up and virtually rewritten I nodded and said, 'Yes, you're right I gave this to you too soon.' I spent quite a while looking at what they had done and examining where I was going wrong before I started up into what amounted to ten rounds of editing between myself and my wife. (Who wanted so much to see the book published that she would forego her usual preference for romance writing and overlook her distaste for science fiction.) After quite a bit of substantive editing back and forth we ended up with something that was still a bit bulky but that was sent off to a paid editor.

Even after that: the finished product was still not polished as well as it could be; but it was something that I thought I could be proud of and be willing to take all the responsibility: flaws and all.

The point is that I could have published the 400k monster because of self-publishing and e-books; but for that one person demonstrating how much work it still needed.

So; perhaps you might find someone willing to do a portion to give you a measure of the work you need to do to make it presentable to them before you send the whole thing out to them. Or find someone near you who might be able to do the same to a portion. But all told, unless you are a literary genius I'd guess that you need at least if not more than a handful of personal edits before sending it to anyone for constructive input. I say this because I saw how frustrated my non-paid editor was when we discussed the few pages they had prepared for immolation.

 

[Tim Murray]

I finished and published my first novel when I was 61. I'm not going to say when I started that novel because I don't want to freak you out and discourage you. I was a bit younger than that.

What I will say is that at the point I thought I was finished I had over 400k words and I handed it to someone I felt would have a critical eye and tell me the truth. I wasn't paying them, but they offered to help. And because I wasn't paying them there was about a two month period where I didn't hear anything and I had to call them to arrange a time we could get together.

When I saw the 50 pages they had marked up and virtually rewritten I nodded and said, 'Yes, you're right I gave this to you too soon.' I spent quite a while looking at what they had done and examining where I was going wrong before I started up into what amounted to ten rounds of editing between myself and my wife. (Who wanted so much to see the book published that she would forego her usual preference for romance writing and overlook her distaste for science fiction.) After quite a bit of substantive editing back and forth we ended up with something that was still a bit bulky but that was sent off to a paid editor.

Even after that: the finished product was still not polished as well as it could be; but it was something that I thought I could be proud of and be willing to take all the responsibility: flaws and all.

The point is that I could have published the 400k monster because of self-publishing and e-books; but for that one person demonstrating how much work it still needed.

So; perhaps you might find someone willing to do a portion to give you a measure of the work you need to do to make it presentable to them before you send the whole thing out to them. Or find someone near you who might be able to do the same to a portion. But all told, unless you are a literary genius I'd guess that you need at least if not more than a handful of personal edits before sending it to anyone for constructive input. I say this because I saw how frustrated my non-paid editor was when we discussed the few pages they had prepared for immolation.

I wrote the very first thoughts in 1988, put it down and picked it up in 2012. The writing style in 2012 made the original look bad. (which I still have to remind me of how far I have come) I went through English teachers, past and present to get it to this point. SFF is paving the way to greatly improve the present manuscript.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Yes, I've read stuff I wrote in 1988.

 

[LittleStar]

1988...
Hmm, I wonder what my writings would have been like in this year Pretty sure >6 months old is the time when you eat books not write them, right?

 

[Tim Murray]

1988...
Hmm, I wonder what my writings would have been like in this year Pretty sure >6 months old is the time when you eat books not write them, right?

There's more than one way to digest them.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

My son was writing not long after that age. He very carefully used a crayon to strike through all the text in everything he picked up. A critic, even before he could walk.