"As" clauses and present participles

AidanInNod

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Just got my edits back from my editor and he is very, VERY proper when it comes to grammar and language. He hit me hard on using "as" clauses and present participle clauses. Thing is, I see some well published folks doing the same thing. Is this something I should avoid or is he being overly strict? Any other opinions?
 
Without seeing what your editor is correcting, it's hard for us to judge whether his advice is right. Even if he is right, in that what you had written was grammatically incorrect, it may be a usage which is nonetheless widely accepted, and it may also depend upon the genre in which you are writing as to how acceptable it is (I imagine so-called literary fiction is more likely to look askance at things genre fiction would tolerate).

For myself, I see no problems with "as" clauses of the type "As he left the room, he smiled" or "As the arrows rained down on the enemy, Beowulf exulted". The only issue would be if you were using them too often, in which case it isn't the sentence construction at fault, but your overuse of it.

There can be problems with present participle clauses -- I wrote a post about it here in The Toolbox some time ago in fact as I'd noticed the prevalence of errors. If you are falling foul of any of those issues, then yes, you ought to correct your usage -- the fact other writers are writing badly is no excuse for you to do the same.

So, let's see what he says you're doing wrong, and we can jump in with our thoughts!
 
I'm trying to find some good examples, but I've scrubbed this thing so much now I can't even find them!
I think for sure I definitely did some over usage. I think maybe a better question would be how much is too much? Once a page? Once a paragraph? Where I ran into a problem was combat scenes, where things, in my mind anyways, were happening AS other things were happening.
That Toolbox article helped for sure, so thank you for that. I think I mainly wanted to see if it was a problem other people had as well or something I really do need to pay attention to and tighten up.
 
Always 'Save As' with new version number when making a fresh edit
Always back up to another computer, USB HDD or USB stick, as a minimum, each day.

I think I mainly wanted to see if it was a problem other people had as well or something I really do need to pay attention to and tighten up.
Impossible to say without a number of examples.
 
I think for sure I definitely did some over usage. I think maybe a better question would be how much is too much? Once a page? Once a paragraph? Where I ran into a problem was combat scenes, where things, in my mind anyways, were happening AS other things were happening.
I'd certainly avoid more than one "as" clause a paragraph, and I'd try and ensure no more than three consecutive paragraphs had them. It can be difficult to find alternatives, but that's what edits and revisions are for!

Glad The Toolbox helped. There are lots of other good posts there, so if you ever have a spare few minutes, it's worth while making your way through it.

If you get any other problems, don't hesitate to put up another thread. And once you hit 30 counted posts (not all posts count for this purpose, eg those in Playrooms) you can put an extract of unpublished work up in Critiques -- max 1500 words -- and we can have a closer look at your grammar then, if you want.

And as Brian said, Welcome to Chrons!
 
Well, I'm assuming an "as" clause is one that begins with "As" in its meaning of "Whilst" or eg "As I was brushing my teeth, Periclaws the cat rubbed himself around my legs" ie it denotes two or more things happening at the same time. It has occurred to me since my first post above that a difficulty can arise if the two things are so unconnected they appear ridiculous eg "As I was brushing my teeth the wind whistled outside" -- there's no obvious connection apart from both happening at the same time, so it's a bit odd to link them with the "As" in that context, so I would red pencil something like that if I were an editor.

The present participle is (per Collins online) a participial form of verbs used adjectivally when the action it describes is contemporaneous with that of the main verb of a sentence and also used in the formation of certain compound tenses. In English this form ends in-ing

So "Walking down the street, I sang the National anthem" is a participial clause, because we have "Walking" and the action is happening at the same time as the main verb "sang". The -ing verb and the main verb must both have the same subject, so "Walking down the street, the wind blew my wig away" is wrong because the "walking" is something I am doing, so I am its subject, but the "blew" is something the wind is doing. So that sentence should be reworded eg into an "As" clause "As I was walking down the street, the wind blew my wig away".

And a clause is basically just a short sentence or a fragment of a sentence. (It's actually a lot more technical than that, but I don't understand the definition, so that's all you're getting from me!)

That help?
 
Thank you for this! I didn't realise how basic a term they were. Feeling a little embarrassed now. I'm really happy to know what a clause is and I take that the term participle is the root of the 'thing'. I also thought that this was called a gerund, not a present participle (starting a sentence with a -ing word).

pH
 
No need to be embarrassed -- I'm still unsure of most thing to do with grammar, so don't ask me why "Walking" is "used adjectivally" as per the Collins definition, because I've not got a clue!**

Anyway, the participle isn't the root of the verb, it's (per Collins again) a nonfinite form of verbs, in English and other languages, used adjectivally and in the formation of certain compound tenses

And no, I've no idea what that means. But basically the present participle is verbs ending -ing and the past participle is verbs ending -ed (or -t or -n for irregular verbs such as burnt and broken) which aren't -- for reasons which escape me -- classified as acting as verbs in that particular sentence or clause construction.

A gerund is indeed an -ing verb, but it's a noun formed from the verb, not one used adjectivally. Collins gives as an example "the living is easy" and I think also things like "swimming is good for you", and "He objected to my being there".



** Ah-ha! I think I might know after all. I've always understood the word "adjective" as meaning a word which describes a noun eg "a green coat" but apparently it also has the meaning (as an adjective itself) of additional or dependent. So "Walking" is an additional verb dependent on the main verb "blew" -- without the main clause, the -ing clause is incomplete so "Walking down the street" needs an end to it, whereas "the wind blew my wig away" is complete in itself.
 

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