The difficulty of getting traditionally published books into bookstores

[Brian G Turner]

A couple of interesting posts by a US agent about how it can be difficult for a traditionally published author to ever see their books in a bookstore:
The Bookstore is Outnumbered - The Steve Laube Agency

It links to an earlier post about how even at launch, a new book can take a couple of weeks to be put on display, and even then, it may be just one copy:
Why Can’t I Find My New Book in My Local Bookstore? - The Steve Laube Agency

At conventions I've repeatedly heard people in publishing dismiss Amazon - after all, most book sales still come from shops. But I remain hugely cynical that such sales figures overwhelmingly represent best-selling authors - which means for everyone else, the chances of being displayed on a book shelf in any shop may be very limited indeed.

 

[Cathbad]

They just give more and more reasons to self-publish.

 

[Brian G Turner]

They just give more and more reasons to self-publish.

Indeed, but the marketing benefits of traditional publishers cannot be underestimated. Even if there's no advertising spend, they generate plenty of online chatter about up-coming titles - though whether readers buy online or at stores is another issue. That raised degree of product awareness is a huge advantage for any traditionally published author.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

They just give more and more reasons to self-publish.

But then you really, really will struggle to see your book in stores.

Fwiw, here's the process I've followed. I'm stocked in Waterstones, Easons (the Irish equivalent of WHSmith) and a number of independents. Remember, I came at this after a decade working as a manager in the booktrade so knew some of the tricks:

For chains:

1. Find out who the buyer is. For all book chains, you will need central authorisation. To do this, ask your local branch manager. (If you can get their support, this all becomes much, much easier.)

2. Approach central buying and seek authorisation for store manager's to purchase at their discretion. Don't ask to be centrally stocked; it won't happen. If you're self publishing, going with Lightning Source rather than Createspace makes this easier.

3. Set up an account and agree terms (30% is the lowest you can expect, 40 more likely, 50% means you'll make so little per copy it's really only a vanity exercise.)

For independents:

1. Bring a copy so they can see quality.

2. Ask nicely.

3. Agree terms.

Remember, this will all be sale or return, so you will get nothing when the shop first takes them. Later, if they sell through you can raise an invoice. But at the start, you leave a delivery note and follow up with the shop re sales. For chains, supply an invoice and then sit back and wait for payment. Up to 3 months, and even then you'll only get paid for what's sold - and you'll have to take the rest back in returns if the shop requires it.

 

[Juliana]

Nice breakdown Jo.

 

[PeteMC]

I don't know, I'm stocked in Waterstones, WH Smiths, Barnes & Noble and Chapters Indigo and I'm hardly a best-selling author - I think it's more down to how good your publisher's sales team are at getting the buyers at the stores to stock your title.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I don't know, I'm stocked in Waterstones, WH Smiths, Barnes & Noble and Chapters Indigo and I'm hardly a best-selling author - I think it's more down to how good your publisher's sales team are at getting the buyers at the stores to stock your title.

You're with Angry Robot who are an established mid sized publisher with central buying agreements with chains. That means most hurdles have been cleared for you. For most small presses, and certainly anyone self published, that will not be the case. And since the vast, vast majority of sff writers will be with small presses - given the breakdown of the genre publishing world - they won't be in your position. That's just the way publishing works and mid list writers are now mostly frozen out.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I don't know, I'm stocked in Waterstones, WH Smiths, Barnes & Noble and Chapters Indigo and I'm hardly a best-selling author - I think it's more down to how good your publisher's sales team are at getting the buyers at the stores to stock your title.

Do they give you any stats on how many of your books have been sent to bookstores? Would love to know what sort of figures are involved.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Interesting and useful stuff in this thread.

There's one more positive about traditional publishing, which is that, right or wrong, it still has more kudos than self-publishing. And you get to write in future submissions "I've previously had XYZ published with Ninkynonkynoo."

 

[PeteMC]

You're with Angry Robot who are an established mid sized publisher with central buying agreements with chains. That means most hurdles have been cleared for you. For most small presses, and certainly anyone self published, that will not be the case. And since the vast, vast majority of sff writers will be with small presses - given the breakdown of the genre publishing world - they won't be in your position. That's just the way publishing works and mid list writers are now mostly frozen out.

Oh I know this absolutely down to Angry Robot's sales team, don't get me wrong.

It's just that the first link in the OP states: "If your book is not going to get substantial exposure in the market, or your “platform” is not one that will drive people into stores or online to buy your book, it is likely your book will not be found on the shelves of your local store."

This hasn't been my experience, is all I meant - I'm a debut author after all, and for all that Angry Robot are great they certainly don't have "big 5" marketing money to throw around but they still got the book stocked on shelves.

Do they give you any stats on how many of your books have been sent to bookstores? Would love to know what sort of figures are involved.

I've only seen North American sell-in numbers so far - around 4,800 copies have gone to stores, mostly to B&N with around 500 each to Books-A-Million and Chapters Indigo. I don't know what the UK numbers are like but they won't be anything like that high, obviously. Even so, I've seen it stocked face-out and 5 deep on the shelf in the book dept of an independent department store as well as face-out in Waterstones and Smiths.

Actual conversion to retail sales is another matter of course...! I'll have to wait for my first royalty statement to see what that's been like so far, and how likely I am to earn out my advance.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

But Angry Robot has been affiliated with and/or distributed by major publishing houses from it's inception: HarperCollins, Osprey, Random House. Angry Robot - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia So it's misleading to compare them to other mid-size publishers.

 

[PeteMC]

Hi Teresa, I agree they're an exceptional case and I'm very fortunate to be with them. My only point was that when the book went out no one had heard of me and I had next to no "platform".

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Hi Teresa, I agree they're an exceptional case and I'm very fortunate to be with them. My only point was that when the book went out no one had heard of me and I had next to no "platform".

But that's the whole point - you do have a platform. That of a publisher with established distribution to stores.

It doesn't matter who you are - stores are buying it on the back of who your publisher is.

Ergo, the scenario presented by you is entirely at odds to most writers who, frankly, have little hope of being stocked.

It's not to do with a publisher's marketing ability - it's to do with their distribution platform, which has narrowed greatly in the last 10 years.

Simply: bar a few genre publishers (and AR are one) a writer will not be stocked. Debut or established isn't what matters - although it will affect the quantities bought.

 

[PeteMC]

Okay I guess I misunderstood the article in the link, I was taking it to mean the writer's personal "platform", i.e. their fame, the draw of their name etc. If not then yeah that makes sense.

 

[Brian G Turner]

I've only seen North American sell-in numbers so far - around 4,800 copies have gone to stores, mostly to B&N with around 500 each to Books-A-Million and Chapters Indigo. I don't know what the UK numbers are like but they won't be anything like that high, obviously. Even so, I've seen it stocked face-out and 5 deep on the shelf in the book dept of an independent department store as well as face-out in Waterstones and Smiths.

That's great to hear, and thanks for that. Sounds like there's a decent chunk of book store sales available, even for a newer author.

Angry Robot has been affiliated with and/or distributed by major publishing houses from it's inception

Solaris has a similar arrangement, I think with Simon and Schuster.

And the great advantage of that for both Angry Robot and Solaris is that it means both companies can distribute to English language markets worldwide - an author published with either company will be published in the UK and USA. Whereas my impression is that Big 5 international corporations treat different countries separately, so that a deal to be published in one does not necessarily equate with the ability to be published in others.