Help! A Horse Question I Can't Answer by Searching YouTube

[Denise Tanaka]

Why, oh why, oh why do I paint myself into a corner?

In my current WIP, here's the scene I have maneuvered myself into: my POV "hero" was abducted by the antagonist's henchmen/minions and carried away on a WAGON to a secluded location. Stuff happened. The hero got loose of his bonds, a wonderful fight I'm proud of ensued, and now the clock is ticking. Hero must get his ass back to the nobleman's manor house a.s.a.p. to warn someone of danger and stop bad things from happening. OK. The problem is, as I already established, the only horses available are a pair hitched (harnessed?) to a wagon.

QUESTION: is it feasible to take a horse out of the wagon's harness, hop on its back (bareback?) and ride like hell for a few miles in time to save the day? Yes? No? Maybe? Any caveats and considerations?

 

[Alex The G and T]

Yes.

 

[Ihe]

Wikipedia: "There is evidence, though disputed, that humans first began riding the horse not long after domestication, possibly as early as 4000 BC.[5] The earliest known saddle-like equipment were fringed cloths or pads used by Assyrian cavalry around 700 BC".

Humans rode horses bareback or with simple padding for over 3000 years. You'll be fine .

 

[Brian G Turner]

Why, oh why, oh why do I paint myself into a corner?

In my current WIP, here's the scene I have maneuvered myself into: my POV "hero" was abducted by the antagonist's henchmen/minions and carried away on a WAGON to a secluded location. Stuff happened. The hero got loose of his bonds, a wonderful fight I'm proud of ensued, and now the clock is ticking. Hero must get his ass back to the nobleman's manor house a.s.a.p. to warn someone of danger and stop bad things from happening. OK. The problem is, as I already established, the only horses available are a pair hitched (harnessed?) to a wagon.

QUESTION: is it feasible to take a horse out of the wagon's harness, hop on its back (bareback?) and ride like hell for a few miles in time to save the day? Yes? No? Maybe? Any caveats and considerations?

I asked this a while back, and basic answer is that it wouldn't be ordinary to expect a cart horse to be broken in for riding. In short, it's probably unlikely your hero would even think of it. It would be kind of like wanting to steal a fork lift truck to make a speedy getaway.

However, the way you could easily get around all this would be to have a henchman, or someone they meet, have a riding horse. A leader of minions - someone with any kind of status - may well be expected to ride their own horse, rather than slum it riding some peasant wagon. Even if the lead henchman is low class, his own horse - or use of one - would be the sort of ambitious thing they might use to show themselves above the others. The lead henchman might even have stolen one from the nobleman's manor.

2c.

 

[Montero]

As well as not being used to having a person on their back, problems with using wagon horse:

1. They are usually broad in the beam - so riding them could be a groin stretching experience
2. The harness - you want a bridle and bit. What they are wearing is set up with long reins for the wagon master to hold. So not just unhitch, you'd need to re-rig their harness
There is also harness around their bodies, which might need to be removed before riding.
Either way, not a quick departure.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

Yes, I think you could. Although I agree with @Montero, any hero worth his salt would be able to either shorten the reins with a handy knife/sword (and remove any extraneous harness), or coil them out of the way. A draught horse is broad, but they are definitely rideable. They probably wouldn't be broken to ride, but this gives your hero a great opportunity to show off his skills, calming and reassuring the horse as he urges it into a cumbersome gallop.

The best person to answer this question is @Kylara who both rides and drives horses.

 

[Mad Alice]

Presumably your protagonist is somewhat familiar with horses, harnessing and so on.
A team of horses is hitched together in harness and then backed to the wagons traces and hitched to the equipage.
There are two stages of unhitching. One from the wagon itself, and one from the horses being hitched or harnessed together.
The actual easiest way to accomplish what you are trying for is to have it be a four in hand carriage, with four horses used to propell it. By undoing the hitch pin, the team is removed from the wagon and can be operated separately. Also now, he can ride the traces between the horses by balancing upon the leather or wood strapping. (Wood for wagons, leather for light carraiges, wood for heavy coaches, usually.) Further, while a wagon can be moved by only one horse if necessary. By taking all of them, pursuit is effectively deterred.
(You know I have just realised I've watched Clint Eastwood and John Wayne movies way too many times.)

 

[Denise Tanaka]

I knew I came to the right place! These answers, on top of even more internet research, has brought me to a decision. It involves WAY too much of explanation and mental gymnastics on my part. I watched videos of the Amish hitching a horse to a buggy and saw, in detail, all the straps and buckles of the harness. Jesus. I watched videos about the pros and cons of riding bareback and realized I'd have to do a hell of a lot of competent description. I watched Rick Gore's videos about horse behavior, and I'm really worried that cart/wagon horses might not cooperate very well. Even if my hero (who is a good rider) unhitched them, and mounted up bareback, will the horse accept his guidance without a lot of fussing and what-not that I am not knowledgeable enough to realistically describe?

So, I'm going to save myself a lot of misery and do a simple rewrite. There's going to be one extra horse that is saddled and ready to go. It can be one extra horse for The Master to use, because he's the master. Yeah?

 

[Denise Tanaka]

Presumably your protagonist is somewhat familiar with horses, harnessing and so on.
A team of horses is hitched together in harness and then backed to the wagons traces and hitched to the equipage.
There are two stages of unhitching. One from the wagon itself, and one from the horses being hitched or harnessed together.
The actual easiest way to accomplish what you are trying for is to have it be a four in hand carriage, with four horses used to propell it. By undoing the hitch pin, the team is removed from the wagon and can be operated separately. Also now, he can ride the traces between the horses by balancing upon the leather or wood strapping. (Wood for wagons, leather for light carraiges, wood for heavy coaches, usually.) Further, while a wagon can be moved by only one horse if necessary. By taking all of them, pursuit is effectively deterred.
(You know I have just realised I've watched Clint Eastwood and John Wayne movies way too many times.)

I'm pretty sure I've seen the same movies you have! Those stuntmen in Hollywood really took their lives in their hands.

Hey, let me recommend an old silent film from Rudolph Valentino: "The Eagle" (1925). He's a Russian Cossack and jumped onto a team of galloping carriage horses. He stood on the harness Cossack style. It was totally awesome, except he actually broke his wrist in doing it and filming was suspended for a few weeks.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

Even if my hero (who is a good rider) unhitched them, and mounted up bareback, will the horse accept his guidance without a lot of fussing and what-not that I am not knowledgeable enough to realistically describe?

Or you could be like many writers and not bother describing the detail, or pondering how unlikely it is.
I admire your attitude to realism. If only most SF writers bothered!
I think a farmer or such that ONLY had a couple of horses, might have used them for cart or plough or riding. Some people might be more expert with strange horses.
Which ever you do, you need to be comfortable with it.
Current practices and differentiations of horse use in last 150 years might not be the same as 500 years ago?

I've only ridden ponies. Maybe a horse once. The "cart" horses I've seen in real life (probably not more than twice, ever) looked like monsters in comparison, I'd need a step ladder! A Coach horse is different I think to a farmer's or brewer's "cart horse"?

 

[Kylara]

Right. This depends very much on the set up and the breed of horse.
Quite a lot of carriage horses can be ridden, so that's not a problem. The type of horse is though, if they're pulling a wagon/flatbed cart they would likely be a draught or a cob. Both are rideable but can be very very wide. Draughts aren't the fastest of horses, either.
If you've got a fancier horse you may have the problem of high withers, but that is really only for boys
Now hitching and unhitching is a different thing entirely. A single is simpler in some ways as you just undo the traces and pull the shafts out of the tugs. Pair you undo both sets of traces and undo the straps from the breastplate to the pole. Draughts tend to use chains for this.
All of that is doable, and very quickly if you either know what you are doing or don't care about damaging the harness.
Riding in harness would be problematic though. (I have a solution below) if you undo th traces they'll be dangling dangerously on the floor around the horse's legs. The reins are not a bother as you either coil them or cut them shorter. The real problem would be the pad, cropper, and backband. In order to sit on horse with harness on you'd have to sit on the backband which would pull on the cropper and you'd have an angry horse. Also the pad itself would be uncomfortable as the are pretty solid and have big metal terrets on. You'd be forced to sit further back than desired which means not as comfy.

My solution would be to keep the breastplate on (something to hold onto) and either cut or unbuckle the traces from it. Then undo the girth straps and the crupper and take the whole lot off (pretty easy actually). Then hop on with your shortened reins (cut and knotted is easiest and saves you taking them out of the terrets) and off you go.

He'd have to be fairly good at riding to stay on and manage a horse with blinkers. Doable, but I'd try to grab horse before it's put to.

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

See. @Kylara always knows.

 

[Kylara]

Haha!

An added caveat, if it is a fancy breastcollar (fitted ring around the neck) then take that off too.

You could always slash the traces and charge off, then stop round the corner and take everything but the bridel and reins off.

My comment about riding a blinkered horse is that it really restricts their vision, and the rider has to do a lot more work with the avoiding of things

 

[Ray McCarthy]

riding a blinkered horse

Was it only when towns with lots of traffic arose that blinkers came in?

It's to stop the horse shying away from peripheral movement?

They look like they would be time consuming to cut off?

 

[Kylara]

Not really. All horses that pull things have always had them. The blinkers stop the horse from seeing what's behind them (big scary carriages/plough/log etc) so they don't get upset. It also focuses them forwards so if anything does upset them they go forwards instead of sideways. Not that driving horses should spook unless extreme circumstances.

Cutting them off is not recommended as they form part of the cheekpieces so any cutting of them would wreck the bridle, possible making it unusable. All you have to do is be careful of your route as horse won't always be able to accurately gauge what is coming. So for instance if we take one out single, cyclists and runners tend to surprise them as they don't see them. Also things that make loud noises that they can't see. This is what makes driving horses so good as they require more training than the average riding horse.

If you ride with them, you just have to be aware that their vision is limited to directly in front of them.

 

[Denise Tanaka]

Or you could be like many writers and not bother describing the detail, or pondering how unlikely it is

That approach has worked fairly well for most of the manuscript! Ha ha ha ha ha. I've been as vague as possible. The fellas ride through meadows and forest for a few days, they get to a lord's manor house, and servants come to escort the horses to the stable. Thank you, servants! But every once in a while, I back myself into a corner.

My goal is not so much to get everything right, but not to make glaring mistakes that will throw a reader out of the story. Even my magic system has to be consistent and believable within its own rules.

@Kylara, you are a wonderful resource to have on the Chrons!

 

[Kylara]

Thank you *blushes*

Another thought is that generally driving horses are very well voice trained, so you can control them with voice as well. A semi naked draught will be easy to sit on (but wide!) but won't be able to run as fast or as long as something like a Gelderlander or a Freisian. But then with those they are a lot more fiery and Gelders can have very high withers

 

[Kerrybuchanan]

something like a Gelderlander

Apropos of nothing -- we had a beautiful matched pair of Gelderlanders pulling our wedding carriage....

 

[Kylara]

They do look lovely with a wedding carriage! They make fabulous coach horses too