Vaz
We're in the pipe, five by five.
An interesting article with some useful advice on how to stay focused when writing epic fantasy so you don't 'lose the plot.'
How to write a long fantasy series
How to write a long fantasy series
Epic Fantasy: Advice on how not to get lost
- Thread starter Vaz
- Start date
I was about to get up on my high horse about epic fantasy - but that's a good piece about the flaws and pitfalls writers can wander into. The whole piece underlines how tightening the plotting should result in better storytelling - but there aren't that many examples to look to. 
Good piece, well worth a read by other aspiring epic fantasy writers.
Good piece, well worth a read by other aspiring epic fantasy writers.
Good article, and plenty of lessons there for other genres as well. Thanks Vaz.
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Very interesting, although anyone who writes "essay" as "essai" needs to be banished to somewhere a long wai awai.
Actually, I think those are very valid points. Epic has a tendency to diffuse into soap opera with knights, and the lack of forward drive probably is, as Scalzi says, the result of spreading things too thin. One of the main questions in any story is surely "What has to happen to end this story?" I lost track of what the answer might be in ASOIAF a long time ago and as for Jordan, goodness knows. One way or another, everything has to drive the story forward, even if it does so in a rather unexpected way. If you need two pieces of a magic sword and there are three characters, it seems like a waste of time not to send two of them together to get one of the bits. However, if they have to all have chapters, the two-person group will need more stuff to do because it will be getting more screen time.
I think a good plot is often a simple plot approached from an oblique angle. So, you might have a story where a villain plans to rob a bank, but the real story is how his lodger's girlfriend starts to suspect that something is going on. What we see is through her eyes, and is all the more menacing and compelling because we don't have the full picture. Epic runs the risk of giving the reader the full picture to no real advantage. I don't mean to say that epic has to contain twists and surprises in order to work, but I'm not sure that all stories need to be told from more than one viewpoint unless something really new is being added.
That said, I don't think the reader has to know what the end of the story is, just the writer. So long as the characters clearly get deeper into the meat of the story, and don't just have endless little side-quests, the feeling of progression ought to be enough.
Thanks for finding this.
Actually, I think those are very valid points. Epic has a tendency to diffuse into soap opera with knights, and the lack of forward drive probably is, as Scalzi says, the result of spreading things too thin. One of the main questions in any story is surely "What has to happen to end this story?" I lost track of what the answer might be in ASOIAF a long time ago and as for Jordan, goodness knows. One way or another, everything has to drive the story forward, even if it does so in a rather unexpected way. If you need two pieces of a magic sword and there are three characters, it seems like a waste of time not to send two of them together to get one of the bits. However, if they have to all have chapters, the two-person group will need more stuff to do because it will be getting more screen time.
I think a good plot is often a simple plot approached from an oblique angle. So, you might have a story where a villain plans to rob a bank, but the real story is how his lodger's girlfriend starts to suspect that something is going on. What we see is through her eyes, and is all the more menacing and compelling because we don't have the full picture. Epic runs the risk of giving the reader the full picture to no real advantage. I don't mean to say that epic has to contain twists and surprises in order to work, but I'm not sure that all stories need to be told from more than one viewpoint unless something really new is being added.
That said, I don't think the reader has to know what the end of the story is, just the writer. So long as the characters clearly get deeper into the meat of the story, and don't just have endless little side-quests, the feeling of progression ought to be enough.
Thanks for finding this.
MemoryTale
Good with a stick
That article's a good read, thank for posting Vaz. As fun as ASOIAF is, I have been wondering if it truly needs all the characters is has... Not to mention worried that all the wonderful King's Landing backstabbery is just filler to keep us occupied until the Others/Danny finally arrive.
Ray McCarthy
Sentient Marmite: The Truth may make you fret.
Fortunately they are both probably outliers.
The Big Peat
Darth Buddha
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The rumour about Jordan being asked to stretch WoT out is incredibly plausible because that's what it reads like. They certainly weren't trying to rein him in.
And basically, lets be honest, any article on how not to write an epic fantasy is "Read Wheel of Time, don't do what he did". Song of Ice and Fire has its mistakes, but the main issue is Martin's writing speed and, lets be honest, he's producing nothing like the Wheel of Time. That stands all alone on its Mount Olympus of bad decisions and I like Wheel of Time. I like it a lot. But Jordan made a lot of mistakes and most of them are pretty obvious. Like spending 5 pages detailing Elayne getting into a bath without any dialogue. When I first heard of the infamous Elayne bathtub scene, I assumed there was some sort of erotica I'd forgotten. But nope!
How well/badly does Malazan do at avoiding these sort of things?
And basically, lets be honest, any article on how not to write an epic fantasy is "Read Wheel of Time, don't do what he did". Song of Ice and Fire has its mistakes, but the main issue is Martin's writing speed and, lets be honest, he's producing nothing like the Wheel of Time. That stands all alone on its Mount Olympus of bad decisions and I like Wheel of Time. I like it a lot. But Jordan made a lot of mistakes and most of them are pretty obvious. Like spending 5 pages detailing Elayne getting into a bath without any dialogue. When I first heard of the infamous Elayne bathtub scene, I assumed there was some sort of erotica I'd forgotten. But nope!
How well/badly does Malazan do at avoiding these sort of things?
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