What Would Starships Ship As Cargo Across the galaxy?

[jjabrams55]

Provided a scifi fictional setting where starships shipped cargo across teh galaxy, what would they logically ship?

I watched The Martian and learned that it is possible to grow food anywhere there is air, dirt, fertilizer, and water (some of which you can bring with you). Granted, IRL physics states the iron content of his Martian potatoes would have given him cancer long before the three years of his Martian adventure was up, but it illustrates that shipping food would not be necessary for space colonies that are established.

I know tech level matters here, and FTL starships is such a high tech level that food should not be difficult. Things I can think of that are plausible are:

Restaurant starships: Freeze the food and deliver it. Or you could even use stasis fields for even fresher foods if you have that tech. Everybody has food, but people will pay for exotic foods that worlds won't transplant to other worlds since they make good money selling it with exotic recipes they don't want to export out (though I'm sure some will try.

People always think of only the war aspects, when the other aspects of scifi are every bit as interesting.

Your thoughts? I want plausible, logical ideas. Thanks.

 

[2DaveWixon]

Provided a scifi fictional setting where starships shipped cargo across teh galaxy, what would they logically ship?

I watched The Martian and learned that it is possible to grow food anywhere there is air, dirt, fertilizer, and water (some of which you can bring with you). Granted, IRL physics states the iron content of his Martian potatoes would have given him cancer long before the three years of his Martian adventure was up, but it illustrates that shipping food would not be necessary for space colonies that are established.

I know tech level matters here, and FTL starships is such a high tech level that food should not be difficult. Things I can think of that are plausible are:

Restaurant starships: Freeze the food and deliver it. Or you could even use stasis fields for even fresher foods if you have that tech. Everybody has food, but people will pay for exotic foods that worlds won't transplant to other worlds since they make good money selling it with exotic recipes they don't want to export out (though I'm sure some will try.

People always think of only the war aspects, when the other aspects of scifi are every bit as interesting.

Your thoughts? I want plausible, logical ideas. Thanks.

C.J. Cherryh touched on this subject at times in her "Merchanter" books, and the two categories I recall were (1) exotic foodstuffs that apparently don't taste the same if grown on different planets -- wine, for one; and (2) intellectual property, which often can be "shipped" in electronic form.

 

[Ajid]

C.J. Cherryh touched on this subject at times in her "Merchanter" books, and the two categories I recall were (1) exotic foodstuffs that apparently don't taste the same if grown on different planets -- wine, for one; and (2) intellectual property, which often can be "shipped" in electronic form.

I like the idea of intellectual property, especially as assuming the use of some sort of warp drive information could only travel as fast as the fastest ship.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

If I may interject here with a corollary, I've been thinking lately about merchant spacers and how, exactly, they would operate. We've always had the concept of ships trading throughout known space, and how it's important to run the trade legs properly so as to make a profit -- many authors have dealt with that. But how do they make a profit? They can't make money, because it's worthless anywhere but on the planet where they get it, and by the time they get back again to that planet after more trading, the money will probably have become worthless there, too. They can't really take out a profit in their trade goods, because ... well, what would they do with it? The only thing trade goods can do for them is give them food, clothing or entertainment. I suppose that's a living. But it seems that they then become not so much traders as just itinerant wanderers who live in a spaceship and travel around moving stuff between planets. There's no profit that I can see. Nothing to retire on, in lavish lifestyle, on a favorite planet. Nothing to pass on to their children except the wandering life. As far as I can see, merchant spacers are just futuristic gypsies.

Am I missing something?

 

[Parson]

@TheDustyZebra I think you are missing somethings. One, for trade to be anything significant at all you have to have FTL, and you have to have it cheap enough for private entities to use. If the ship costs much more than a ocean going cargo ship (in terms of wage years) then trade is going to be sparse. Trade at slower than light speed you become as you suspect "gypsies." As far as I can recall there are only two scenarios that facilitate trading. One, there is either (for lack of a better term) Federation of Planets using the same or related currencies. Or there is a universally accepted and valued commodity (gold, heavy metals, art, etc).

@jjabrams55 I agree with @2DaveWixon that Cherryh has thought this out pretty well. (As she nearly always does.) The only other thing I could see is if there is an hyper abundance of something, perhaps iron ore, on one planet, but it is very rare on another. Then it might make sense to ship it from one place to another.

 

[Zebra Wizard]

With a future where everything is 3D printed etc. The only thing i'd see as worth trading is luxuries. collector's items, materials/minerals and food (wine).

But just like modern day trade, it all comes down to cost. How much would it cost to transport cargo in your universe? If it is dirt cheap to use FTL and travel from place to place, then it would still be plausible to transport raw materials and foodstuff. Transporting real beef from the Planet Cowland may still be cheaper than growing the meat in labs?

Or maybe in your universe everyone wants the latest earth manufactured iDroid, not that cheap printed garbage that your neighbour will mock you for.

 

[zmunkz]

@TheDustyZebra raises a very good point. Before you start talking about interstellar shipping, you need to have an inter-planetary economics model that makes sense. FTL travel would need to be cheap, as would moving material from the surface of a given planet into these FTL ships. Raw elements are almost certainly not feasible to lift into orbit and ship at any profit.... with maybe some exceptions. Rare elements like gold that have an important role in electronics, maybe. Things like iron? No way.

Things like seeds, vaccines, genetic material, etc, probably could be economical since they are so small and can be used at the destination to create the actual desired end product. Although along these lines, our current 3-D printing technology almost negates the need for shipping even those sorts of things, so I imagine by the time we have FTL we can do bio printing and advanced prototyping just by downloading instructions from the Galactic AC of the day.

 

[2DaveWixon]

@TheDustyZebra raises a very good point. Before you start talking about interstellar shipping, you need to have an inter-planetary economics model that makes sense. FTL travel would need to be cheap, as would moving material from the surface of a given planet into these FTL ships. Raw elements are almost certainly not feasible to lift into orbit and ship at any profit.... with maybe some exceptions. Rare elements like gold that have an important role in electronics, maybe. Things like iron? No way.

Things like seeds, vaccines, genetic material, etc, probably could be economical since they are so small and can be used at the destination to create the actual desired end product. Although along these lines, our current 3-D printing technology almost negates the need for shipping even those sorts of things, so I imagine by the time we have FTL we can do bio printing and advanced prototyping just by downloading instructions from the Galactic AC of the day.

So maybe it becomes the case that FTL ships make their living by transferring knowledge (above all) -- perhaps serving a sort of adhesive function that keeps far-flung planetary societies in touch with each other, countering the otherwise likely result that they would, isolated, drift apart, falling out of the network of human societies...?

 

[TheDustyZebra]

Information seems almost the only thing worth shipping, with the possible exception of the aforementioned foodstuffs. Things that are only "right" if they come from their planet of origin. But still, where's the "living" for the people who do the shipping? It seems to me like they would only be profiting at it if they were being paid by their planet of origin (or planet of choice) and building up a good nest egg where they want to settle down -- assuming they want to settle down. Otherwise, they're just roaming for the sake of roaming. Which isn't a bad thing, mind you -- I'd do it myself. But there's no retiring unless they're being paid at home. Not really an entrepreneurial job, as we've sort of always been led to believe.

 

[Phyrebrat]

Fine art? It's unique and culturally important. Art icons linked to religious systems could be even more revered.

pH

 

[zmunkz]

But still, where's the "living" for the people who do the shipping?

The actual shipping could probably be automated. In fact, fully autonomous robotic interstellar flights seem a lot easier to build and pull off than autonomous cars.

Regarding the payments... if we have FTL ships, do we have FTL data communication? If so, I'm sure someone can send a bitcoin from Alpha Centauri and it would be reflected in the recipient's account on Earth. If not, collecting money or even exchanging goods is quite problematic. In such a world, using FTL ships strictly as conduits of information within separate parts of the future internet's infrastructure might be the most valuable use for them.

 

[Foxbat]

In the middle ages, people collected their own number twos to use as fertiliser to grow crops so I've often wondered why a starship captain has never cottoned on to selling the contents of their own spaceship toilet system at some out-on-the rim colony as part of their cargo off-load. The crew have got to eat so it costs nothing extra to produce and is purely profit at the other end.

If I were a captain, I'd call my ship The Screaming Abdabs

 

[2DaveWixon]

Information seems almost the only thing worth shipping, with the possible exception of the aforementioned foodstuffs. Things that are only "right" if they come from their planet of origin. But still, where's the "living" for the people who do the shipping? It seems to me like they would only be profiting at it if they were being paid by their planet of origin (or planet of choice) and building up a good nest egg where they want to settle down -- assuming they want to settle down. Otherwise, they're just roaming for the sake of roaming. Which isn't a bad thing, mind you -- I'd do it myself. But there's no retiring unless they're being paid at home. Not really an entrepreneurial job, as we've sort of always been led to believe.

As I recall, governments often pay transportation companies for hauling the mails -- I believe that goes at least as far back as the pony express. And no less than Charles Lindberg used to fly airmail about.
Of course, flying private mail about, even if subsidized by government, likely only works when done to take advantage of already-planned flights. But might there be additional government interest in simply encouraging transport between planets, if only to facilitate communications in general?
As for "no retiring unless they're being paid at home" -- if your home is the ship, perhaps that's more feasible? (Again, see Cherryh's works...)

 

[2DaveWixon]

In the middle ages, people collected their own number twos to use as fertiliser to grow crops so I've often wondered why a starship captain has never cottoned on to selling the contents of their own spaceship toilet system at some out-on-the rim colony as part of their cargo off-load. The crew have got to eat so it costs nothing extra to produce and is purely profit at the other end.

If I were a captain, I'd call my ship The Screaming Abdabs

On the other hand, if the ship wants to produce at least part of the food its people use, their fertilizer might be too valuable to be sold?

 

[mosaix]

They'll ship people - colonists.

 

[Ursa major]

With a nod to the different balance of "cargos" found on UK and US railways/railroads....

As someone living in the UK, I think the most obvious cargo would seem to be people... if there's reasonably fast FTL** available (because, otherwise, most passengers would consist (pun intended) of those wishing to migrate, i.e. people who aren't likely to be repeat customers).

Obviously there may be trade in goods manufactured (or, at a stretch, refined raw materials produced) in places where scarce resources can be extracted (on the basis that most people choose -- are in a position to choose -- to live in places most conducive for pleasant living, and these do not necessarily correspond with the distribution of useful resources). A convertible trading currency would make life much simpler, but given that this would benefit

• the merchants and traders,
• those wanting to spend the wealth they've made in mining/manufacturing (many of whom, one supposes, would want to "retire" to more pleasant living conditions),
• the people wanting to buy goods from other planets/whatever,

I see no reason for it not to be put in place.


** - The universe in which my stories are set doesn't have vessels capable of FTL speeds, but these subluminal craft do have access to what can be considered to be a network*** that allows FTL travel. And, luckily for the economy, most destinations are only a few days away (and most important ones are a lot closer), so trade is possible. Note that information can travel through (inside) the network at the speed of light, so communication delays between worlds may not be much longer than we experience when using satellite communications (because the major part of the delay is still to be found between the equipment on the ground and in space; it's just that the "ground" at the two ends are on different planets/whatever). This greatly simplifies the "management" of a network-wide convertible currency.

*** - The network is passive, so in economic terms the costs for the owner of any given part of it are almost all found in the initial build, not in the running.... And just like transport links here on Earth, some have tolls and some don't (possible because the most used parts of the network have been in existence for a very long time... and some parts were initially built for military use).

 

[Toby Frost]

A lot of it depends on the society, I suppose. An Asimov-type society would carry very different things to a Dune-type society.

A ship might carry colonists, possibly pilgrims or crusaders (there are entire companies devoted to moving Catholic and Muslim pilgrims around), high-tech equipment too complex to be produced on frontier planets (until the frontier planets learned how to replicate it), luxuries and status symbols, items of cultural but not literal significance (art, relics, etc), and perhaps (genetically modified?) livestock in real or embryonic form. There might be some kind of self-contained "settler kit", including a house, equipment for growing crops, and so on. Maybe the ship could deliver dozens of these to help turn early settlements into towns. Certain planets might have a reputation for producing particularly tough citizens, who might be valued as soldiers or labourers on other worlds, as happened in the British Empire. But that depends on what alternatives are available, such as robots.

Depending on the circumstances, I could also see the ship itself being of worth. Perhaps it is itself a religious or cultural relic (a sort of flying museum?) or contains machinery/tech that is jealously guarded from the planet itself, but which the citizens of the planet are allowed to use in return for a fee. In a really odd society, there could be a priest or troubadour-caste who travel from world to world to bless or perform ritual entertainments.

 

[Overread]

A huge part depends upon the costs of FTL travel as that will dictate what commodities can be viably transported for profit. However the costs of FTL travel also have to be balanced against the relative incomes of the worlds and furthermore the time spent in deep space to transport the goods. Whilst many goods can be preserved some are going to be useless if it takes decades to transport between worlds.

So a huge amount depends upon the world and the setting. Also don't forget labour costs; we ship shrimp all the way from Scotland to China to be de-shelled and then ship it back again because the wages for shelling in the UK would be more expensive than shipping costs and workers in China.

IF they've got replicators or high end 3D printers then one is rather limited on goods to be transported and in the end it would become information that is the key product to be shipped which begs the question then of FTL communication - either they'd have it or they'd have to have relay ships transport bulk information blocks world to world - with the possibility of some coming with high prices; limited use activations (you can print 4 packets of food from this before buying another code) however digital data like that would likely be more profitable to have local outlets so the only transport would be new products.

People and livestock are two things that are going to remain constant as things that can't be printed/replicated along with any illegal goods that might be difficult to legally print/recreate. So you can likely work those 3 into nearly any setting. From animals for medication to religion to private collectors to food etc...



If the setting has no free replication system or such tech is restricted or limited in use then, of course, anything that can't be produced on one world will be transported from others so long as the infrastructure and tech is there to make a relative profit.



Also don't ignore the fact that some companies and industries run at a loss but are subsidised to continue producing. Farmers in the UK are heavily subsidised for many produce - eg sheep farms almost all run at a heavy loss but maintain functionality because of government payments. Shipping between worlds might work similar in that whilst the costs of FTL are too high for profit a subsidy from the government allows and maintains inter-world transportation; likely to help ensure that worlds remain in tight communication and mingling with each other so that allies and colonies don't become isolated and thus likely see more and more autonomous operation since they have no reliance nor need upon the "home" or "core" world(s). So there's a control element in promoting and furthering trade and exchange of produce, people and skills between worlds.


Of course planets, where habitable, can sustain more independence than many countries can; but its all relative. Also don't forget that some worlds might lack certain key resources - you could well have worlds which are logistically well placed but resource poor - essentially a space style Japan which imports raw materials and then exports produce - eg a world or even space station that is sitting at a crossroads or junction of long distance travel between multiple systems.

 

[Biskit]

But how do they make a profit? They can't make money, because it's worthless anywhere but on the planet where they get it, and by the time they get back again to that planet after more trading, the money will probably have become worthless there, too.

I'm not a historian, so there are probably gaping holes in this, but surely the answer is you trade at each stop, exchanging what you have for something you know (or hope) will have value at your next stop. As a caveat on all this, one of the scenarios to consider is that some trade will result in a loss.

The first practical/historical example that springs to mind is the Europe/Africa/America trade sequence - get your slaves and sell them, picking up things like cotton/sugar/tobacco and head back to Europe where you can sell those and buy things which can then be traded for more slaves. You have no real common currency here, other than precious metals and the like, but really I think the point is at each point you exchange one cargo for another.

Example one only survives until someone says awkward things like 'trading people is bad'. No, wait, example one only survives as an open, legal trade until someone says awkward things.

The second that occurs to me is the Spice Road - a trail from the Far East to the western edge of Europe - and related trade routes. I seem to recall that at various archaeological digs across the UK, they have found items on pre-Roman sites which originated from around the Mediterranean or even further eastwards, so people were managing to trade across vast distances with (presumably) no common currency.

Really, if you give people a means of transport and the chance to make a profit, somebody, somewhere will figure out how to take advantage.

 

[Glitch]

Even with 3D printing there is still a need for the raw materials. Yes you could mine for the materials on your planet, but it could be cheaper to buy from company x who are strip mining another planet. Highly developed planets/colonies might not want heavy industry polluting their environment but are happy for someone else to do it if the price is right. Remind you of anywhere?