Show some restraint

[allmywires]

Hello all,

Quick question - if you were to restrain someone, or at least limit their chances of striking out at you, would pinning/holding the elbows to the sides work? What would be a subtle yet effective way of letting someone know you were trying to keep them restrained (yet without actively handcuffing/straightjacketing them)?

'Limited movement' is sort of what I'm aiming for here...

 

[The Judge]

Ralph will undoubtedly know, since he's a serving police officer, and they presumably give some training in this area. While we're waiting for him, though, is the restrainer facing the other person, or behind him/her? Do you want limited movement in other spheres, too -- ie you don't want him/her to back away, or to turn around? And what kind of relationship do they have? Ex-lovers are likely to use different techniques than a boss and employee or two strangers.

Anyhow, I'd have thought taking the other person's hand/wrists was more subtle than pinning the arms/elbows, since it's less obviously aggressive, and you don't need to be so close to his/her body which in itself can appear intimidating. No idea if it's more effective, though.

 

[allmywires]

Thanks, TJ - apologies, some context:

The restrainee has just woken up from a drug-induced stupor: the restrainer is facing him, and is a stranger (but presenting himself as a benign one). He's holding his elbows as it stands in the scene, since the restrainee already has his arms folded and also wrists seems a little more intimate, and although my restrainee is in a jail cell he's not been arrested. The restrainer doesn't necessarily actually want to restrain him, just to give the subtle appearance that he could, if needed (and to bring up some memories for the restrainee of having had that done to him in the past, i.e. be violently physically restrained - oh that PTSD)

Now the word 'restrain' is starting to sound weird in my head...

 

[Ragandar]

That is going to depend on relative strength between the two participants. It could be, if the restrainer is significantly stronger than the person being restrained. From my limited martial arts experience, however, I would say that wrists are far more effective for less effort, unless you go for martial techniques, but I don't know any techniques that could be described as subtle. With regards to actual restraining, I would regard the wrists as infinitely more desirable targets, because with the elbows you'd still leave the hands free to do whatever. It does not neutralise the threat that is posed by the other person, whereas the wrists would give you control over the entire arms (including the shoulders with some nasty holds).

Eh, based on the new information:

I would argue elbows are actually more intimate than wrists, because they are closer to the chest-area and have less potential to reach the outer limits of the personal circle, even if one is crossing their arms. I would feel more uncomfortable with someone grabbing at my elbows than at my wrists in such a situation.

Also, I would say that if he wished to present himself as benign, that he would not be restraining the person at all. Then he'd presumably be more likely to assert dominance or whatever by gently pushing them back onto the bed with a push at the shoulders. Furthermore, I would personally restrain someone beforehand, during their stupor, if I assumed there would be any reason that the person needed to be restrained.

 

[VinceK]

I'm not sure that in this instance any physical contact would be required, in fact it could lead to unwanted confrontation. Would it not be better to convey the threat of restraint through dialogue, perhaps mentioning the restrainee's previous experience?

 

[The Big Peat]

No. Or at least, based on my limited amount of martial arts practice, I would never try to restrain someone that way. Even if I thought I could absolutely definitely keep their elbows pinned to their side - which I want a big size difference to gurantee - I would still never consider someone properly restrained when they could knee me in the groin. If their legs are free and they're facing me, they're a danger. They could headbutt me too.

The standard police restraint grip in the UK is to force their arm up behind their back while being behind them. That's effective.

From what you're saying, if I am the Stranger in that scene, I'm not touching them at all. Even if I'm not in some official capacity where people can rain down the brown sticky stuff on me if I touch them wrong, I don't see any effective restraint to be had out of the touching their arms facing them and would rather just be out of reach. Plus, touching them looks like less benign.

Someone with more knowledge might say I'm talking out of me arse but there is my tuppenorth.

 

[allmywires]

Cool. Thanks all! I'll probably remove the elbow-touching. (Just realised the reason he's touching the elbows is because he pulls him upright by the elbow, which is not an efficient way to do that...)

 

[WaylanderToo]

you tube is your friend...

 

[Gonk the Insane]

would pinning/holding the elbows to the sides work?

Noooo! To do that, you need to get in close and that gives you 2 problems: 1) you've got no real leverage, and for them to break free with minimal fuss all they need to be is stronger/wriggle more than you can cope with, or 2) you're now close enough for them to do some rather more than minimal damage to your lovely self - you're open for head-butts, groin strikes, and kicks to the legs. Restraining someone adequately in the manner you're talking about requires, in most cases, physical contact and something (typically an arm or wrist) forced into a position it does not want to go. When done properly, escaping is nigh on impossible because the restrainer just has to exert more pressure to apply [more] pain. I was doubtful at first, but my Jiu Jitsu instructor let me try and escape once (I think it might have been my first lesson). Needless to say it didn't end well - Physics 1, Gonk 0.

An easy way to make someone feel threatened would be to have more people in the cell with the character, crowding him in. Is that an option? A big physical presence up in your grill has a way of focusing the mind and sparking a healthy degree of wariness.
Failing that, just some kind of semi/constant contact could prove disconcerting to someone waking up - the slight pressure of someone's foot holding your own in place, for example (can't take a step, can't escape). It's relatively innocuous but likely unsettling in that scenario.

 

[ThomasG]

There are so many "depends" to answer this. You might want to look up some Aikido or better Jiu Jitsu moves if all you are looking for his holding, arm locks. Yet to hold a person in a standing position who doesn't want to be held is not easy, holding elbows back is hardly effective.

 

[Ihe]

Would the stranger want to restrain the other without hurting him? That is mighty complicated unless the strength difference is enormous. If you're willing to hurt the other a bit, you could do some low-level jiujitsu restraints, then again, if the person is prone, there's not much you can do to stop them from getting up unless you go down to the ground with them (dropping your body weight on them, tangling up, etc).

 

[ralphkern]

The context you've given is somewhat confusing to me (albeit, I'm coming at it from wondering why would an unconsious person be in a cell? Especially if not under arrest. They should be in hospital). In these circumstances, I would revert to the fact a cop's most important tool is his mouth.

But, taking your scene in isolation without consideration to wider context and just operating under the parameters you've given - You seem to suggest the subject is standing, arms crossed, facing torwards, compus mente. Officer must exert presence or dominance to show they can restrain. No suggestion of excitablity giving a resistance to pain.

On the arm which is on the outside of the folded arms (normally right over left) I'd have a light hold on the person's right wrist with my right hand. My left hand would be just above their right elbow (Present as reassuring, "Are you feeling okay?" those kinds of verbals). To look at, it may seem a very benign posture. Even a friendly rub on the elbow may be warranted.

If the subject starts to struggle, you then have two options.

They're already quite tied up as their arms are folded. I might be inclined to just push them back firmly (especially if a bed or matress behind) leave the cell, close it up and let them chill out before trying again, or gather a larger team to safely restrain.

Option two, which is more than likely what you are looking for is what's called a "Straight arm bar takedown".

My reassuring left hand on the left elbow will then pincer into the flesh between the tricep and elbow. A very sensitive spot (perfect if you get the elbow funny bone right). This will give a distraction and also gain control of the arm at the elbow.

My right hand will grip the wrist, this will be firm, but lighter as I need the wrist to be able to rotate beneath my hand.

I will pull the wrist towards me, (hopefully out of the weak side of the arm folded position) push the arm straight with my left hand while twisting. My grip on elbow will evolve to a sawing motion with my forearm. If they need any extra persuasion, or their strength is higher than expected, I would put in a knee strike, aiming for a dead leg. I will drive them down towards the ground. This seems quite long winded when written, but it will be quite a snappy motion.

I will be shouting as loud as I can "Get Down". Two purposes - a distraction in itself, and because whether consiously or unconsiously, people sometimes respond to commands.

From there, I would go into a ground pin. The officer would now be expending zero effort, while the subject will be fatiguing fast through struggling or unable to move full stop. I'd either call for others, so we can get him all tied up, or be able to work at a slower, more considered pace to get him into cuffs while doing him the minimum harm. (from that position you can use pain compliance).

"Put your other hand in the small of your back"

"No, officer. I do not wish too. Go forth and multiply."

(officer tweaks arm by pushing it towards centre of back) "Do it now."

"Ouch... Ok"

I'd be very mindful of what we call positional axphyxia in that position. The subject would struggle to breathe and may suffocate. But assuming they're doing okay like that, the cop can take as long as he needs to take to get the guy in cuffs safely, or calm them down.

Videos:

This shows a basic straight arm bar takedown. (for your scenario modified as above to get control of arm out of arms folded)

This shows a take down to ground pin. (personally, I prefer to be stood up with the arm locked between the knees. It reduces risk of positional asphyxia as you have no weight on them, I feel more stable and in the city centre environment, you normally have a load of the subject's mates around baying for your blood, so its easier to react to them). Note the twist of the wrist. That's so pain compliance can be applied and also puts the wrist in the correct position for handcuffing.

I hope that's clear enough. Sometimes difficult to explain, easier to show. Send me the part on here for critique if you wish.