Writing challenges on this site.

[ErikB]

I figured I'd run this past my fellow writers, and I understand the need for rules on any forum or social network site. I've been and am moderator on other sites so I get the need for proper conduct, for rules that allow for fairness and for a positive atmosphere.

I just had an entry removed from a 75 word challenge. In spite of having counted my revisions several times I did erroneously post a 76 word entry. (The irony being that I actually added a word because I thought I had 74 at one point). LOL. Go figure... Bad boy Erik! He he he...

Anyway, the offering was removed and I was informed that due to the word count going over it had been removed and that while I was free to vote on other entries (which I most certainly will since there are some excellent stories on there. And for those who have not yet been to the Nov challenge go take a look. Really good stuff) I could not submit a new story.

I mistook new for meaning different. Which was fine. I had no intention on coming up with and submitting another entry.

They (the moderators) did share with me a copy of my original story and in doing a word count they were correct. I expected that.

I then edited the offering and resubmitted only to learn that I cannot revise the offering by altering a word. Effectively it is disqualified.

A lightbulb moment for me.

And before I ask this of the non moderators on the site (just an opinion from my fellow non staff writers), I want to say that I am not fighting for my story. I honestly don't care as much whether it wins, loses, etc. It was not exactly up for a Pulitzer prize.

I'm just curious about the non revision policy. What do you think of not being able to simply revise an entry provided one is not rewriting a story?

Is it just the math principle? Sorry you had a chance and you blew the count. Be more careful in the future! (I will be of course.)

LOL.

There are times that I really marvel at this site. I am very VERY grateful that I have found this place and the community as well as the staff are all awesome. Very informative and helpful.

My writing has improved just in the shirt time that I have been here. I honestly love this place and most of the writers here have been exceptionally helpful and insightful.

Some rules do give pause for thought though. I think that a non revision rule is one of those for me. And I could be way off track here. No worries. I'm not perfect just like anyone else.

Just curious what my fellow writers think about making corrections to challenge offerings?

Any thoughts on that policy?

Cheers!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I've had one pulled. Mea culpa. Rules are rules. I was happy with the decision to pull and stop me reposting - the mods only have so much time

 

[Ihe]

I think enforcing the rule simply works to stop people from posting their stories willy-nilly. If people could repost no one would bother double-checking their word-count, leaving it up to the mods. I actually don't think people here would take advantage, but overall, it's a good rule to have for any exceptions that may come.

 

[The Judge]

Since you appear to want responses from non-mods, I'll forbear from giving my opinion on your question.

However, since this is a matter about the Challenges, not a general writing matter, I'll move this thread to where it belongs.

 

[ratsy]

I like rules. Keeps the order. And I obsessively count words, and have yet to go over. And that can mean 73 words some times, just to be sure.

I say, let it go if you can, and keep going on the next challenge. They are a lot of fun, and a great corner of the Chrons.

 

[mosaix]

First, Erik, commiserations on the rejected story.

Second, there is an onus on each of us to get every aspect of our submissions correct - theme, genre and word count. We all get to vote on the first two but a designated mod has to check the third. This is someone's unhappy task - checking each and every entry. By making the word count a strict rule we are especially careful to get it right. If we used the designated mod as the final check, with a chance to resubmit, then we'd probably get a bit sloppy about it with an 'Oh I cant be bothered checking. I'll just submit and see what the mods say" attitude.

Also, and I've done this lots of times, the mods get lots of 'just check this hyphenated word for me would you? two words or one?' queries. So there's more work to this than meets the eye.

Better luck next time.

 

[Dan Jones]

I've had one pulled, a 300 worder. A good one, too (according to the mod). Rules is rules. I was gutted but one moves on. I never made that mistake again.

I dare say you'll do the same now you're in the Disqualified club!

 

[ErikB]

Thank you Judge for shifting it. I was not sure if this could be posted on the challenge thread.

Also thanks for sharing your thoughts everyone. I am asking as a curiosity matter more so than anything else.

To me it would not be a big issue (taking myself out of the equation and stepping into the site staff shoes for a moment) if members corrected over counts provided that it took place during the submission period.

But that's just me.

I'm good with the rules and of course I take full responsibility for my mistake. I DID miscount and add one too many words.

But I think that its always good to review and discus site issues and functions with others so I figured I'd see what others thought about it.

Thanks again. Have a good one folks. Cheers!

 

[ErikB]

I think enforcing the rule simply works to stop people from posting their stories willy-nilly. If people could repost no one would bother double-checking their word-count, leaving it up to the mods. I actually don't think people here would take advantage, but overall, it's a good rule to have for any exceptions that may come.

I think that you probably sold the rule to me most strongly. Accountability of members rather than forcing a lot of counting among staff members. (Although someone does ultimately have to count them.) But that makes absolute sense!

Great answer! Thank you.

 

[Ursa major]

At least one mod has posted a story that they edited, without realising it, outside the editing window that applies to non-mods. When this was pointed out -- a non-mod noticed that the time on the edit was outside the hour then** allowed -- that mod pulled their story.

I can't recall if the edit was done to get the word count within the limit, or simply correcting an error or, having seen it on the thread, improving it in some respect. The point was that the action broke the rules and so the entry had to be pulled. (Note that a non-mod couldn't break this rule, as the software would not allow it; further, a mod is given no warning at all that they are about to edit outside the normal editing window.)


Speaking with my non-mod hat on, but wearing the (now quite rare) hat of someone whose entries have reached every single end-of-challenge poll, I'm now paranoid about overstepping the word count limit. I really don't want to take that hat off. (It's become a part of me, I tell you...!) *cough*

I could, I suppose, easily ask my fellow mods (the one's that do this for challenges) to check every hyphenated word (give or take that I'm almost always writing my entries in the last few hours of a challenge, so may be the only "challenge" mod on duty). I don't do so, as they'd probably get fed up of me pestering them. Instead, I tend to count hyphenated words as two (or more, as appropriate), just to be certain that I won't go over the limit. Oh, and I count by hand, in three different ways (at least one of them not in the same direction), plus use Word's word count function and its grammar check function (which sometimes give different results based on their separate treatments of certain types of punctuation).

One day, I will make a mistake, and the hat will have to be put away (after being surgically removed). But not this month (I hope...).


** - It's almost certainly still one hour, but I have no way of knowing: the software doesn't apply this restriction to me. (Which is why, if I have** to do edits, I do them right away.) Note that if the word count is found to be too long within that hour (or whatever it is), we try to contact the author, giving them a chance to change it before they're prevented from doing so. But it's still far, far safer to get it right before posting.

*** - This month, my 300-word story was gifted lots of extra line breaks just after I'd got the formatting right (trying to match in the post what I had in Word). Luckily, I done most of the formatting before posting, using the preview function.

 

[VinceK]

I dare say you'll do the same now you're in the Disqualified club!

I became a member of that club recently and as a result have forbade myself from entering writing competitions. However, as I have a propensity for breaking rules…

 

[Coast]

I support the one strike rule, mainly due to what was said in a similar post to this. (I'm not sure where I saw it, maybe a monthly discussion thread?)

Which is that once an entry has been seen by other people, it can't be unseen. So if a word or two extra that gives context or added emphasis is later removed, even though the new entry doesn't make as much sense or doesn't show that emphasis, it's still in people's minds. So you have a clearer understanding of the story, even though those couple of words are gone. Which, especially in the 75, can make a huge difference.

It may not always be the case and it wouldn't be intentional, but I think it's somewhat unavoidable.

If you want to Erik, you can always throw it up in the Discussion or Improving threads after the voting has finished to get a bit of feedback on the story.

 

[Droflet]

Six years in without joining the club. But it's just a matter of time because happens.

 

[Cathbad]

Six years in without joining the club. But it's just a matter of time because happens.

~grumbling as I get out the mop & bucket~

 

[Luiglin]

I've never fell foul of a story being pulled but have of noticing an error outside of the hour edit zone resulting in colorful utterances.

Had one in my last entry where a speechmark hid from my editing eyes only to start jumping up and down whooping in delight after the hour had elapsed. Frustrating but my own fault.

I'm not sure if this is unique but I've also had a request turned down from a Mod to delete an entry that I thought was utter rubbish. Their reply was naturally in the negative but equally supportive and encouraging.

There have to be rules and as the Mods are volunteers I'm happy that they are unbreakable.

I've not tried bribes as yet though

 

[Cathbad]

I've not tried bribes as yet though

I know at least one of 'em likes cake...

 

[Luiglin]

I know at least one of 'em likes cake...

The problem is so do I.

 

[mosaix]

I've never fell foul of a story being pulled but have of noticing an error outside of the hour edit zone resulting in colorful utterances.

Had one in my last entry where a speechmark hid from my editing eyes only to start jumping up and down whooping in delight after the hour had elapsed. Frustrating but my own fault.

I'm not sure if this is unique but I've also had a request turned down from a Mod to delete an entry that I thought was utter rubbish. Their reply was naturally in the negative but equally supportive and encouraging.

There have to be rules and as the Mods are volunteers I'm happy that they are unbreakable.

I've not tried bribes as yet though.

Ditto on both counts, Luiglin. Strangely, if I remember correctly, the one asked to be pulled got some votes. I'll hunt it down and give some details later.

 

[Cory Swanson]

I was disappointed when I had one pulled, but these are the breaks. Ultimately, you can't get too upset because you don't really win anything but pride and the stakes are low. Don't get me wrong, I want to win, but if I improve my writing, I win. Cue rainbow and star graphic and a picture of me giving a thumbs up.

 

[Phyrebrat]

My writing has improved just in the shirt time [...]

I hate to be that guy, Erik, but...'shirt'?

(You should see my emails, they're grammatical and typo minefields!)

To me it would not be a big issue (taking myself out of the equation and stepping into the site staff shoes for a moment) if members corrected over counts provided that it took place during the submission period.

I think this is where the approach to the challenges is nuanced between members:

My challenge entries are written purely in respect of trying to improve my craft. As such I monitor my entries for logic, typos, grammar, and length. I love the site and I think the majority of Chrons members are awesomely awesome, but to me the 75 and 300's are not just a bit of fun. I don't have a Creative Writing degree, or other training in storytelling, so the lessons I learn here from everyone are crucial. A way to get valuable feedback is in the mentions or votes. That's a measurable objective.

Furthermore, I think if one is aiming to be published then it behooves us to polish our challenge entries, making them as professional as possible; after all, why should someone get votes or mentions when they've just rushed off a story that has spelling errors, off-genre, off-topic etc? (that is, if you're after votes).

And on that: It always puzzles me when the challenge goes up and by the end of the first day there are 4 or 5 entries. I think; 'Really? Is that the best you can make it?' because we're advised to sit on our first drafts of our novels and shorts for a few weeks at least, before going back to edit them with a fresh set of eyes. It seems like a knee jerk reaction. But then, that is just my perception - other people may just enjoy the process of writing a 75 word entry and then submitting it immediately.

I could not edit my 300 worder down in enough time to submit it for the latest challenge. I think it's around 340 and so I posted it in my blog as it seemed a bit wasteful. I knew that I'd not get it posted in time and 40 words is a lot to go over, so it went unused.

One of the greatest things about the challenges is the support they get from each other, and people like Ensign Shah who regularly vote without having entered. As you say, they're a great tradition.

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