Screenwriting

Dan Jones

Der Vater absurder Geschichten
Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2014
Messages
3,391
Location
I am here to do the thing!
Recently I've been mulling over the thought of adapting Man O'War into a screenplay for either a film or TV miniseries. Then I realised I didn't really know much about screenwriting, and that it's necessarily a different skill to novel writing, to the point that I think I'd rather work with a partner on the project to learn the ropes more effectively.

I know of one person on Chrons doing a screenplay, but wondered if anyone else here is a screenwriter? Or are there any threads already online about screenwriting skills, queries, etc? And if not, is there a sufficient appetite for a separate forum within Writing Forums (apologies if I'm overstepping my bounds, Brian) for screenwriting?

I won't be starting this quite yet; I've got plenty of other things to do, but I really would like to do this to add another strong to my bow, and create further opportunities for work.
 
What I've read about writing screenplays for film is that it's a very dispiriting process - there's a complete lack of control, and to expect whatever you write to be rewritten by someone else to look nothing like the original (or, conversely, be told to rewrite an existing screenplay, before your version is rewritten by someone else). And that it's not unusual for 6 or more writers to work on a Hollywood script, but the studio only needs to credit the last 3 (and if the director changes a word, he gets one of those credits).

If your novels are ever going to be adapted for film, my impression is that it's best to look at selling the film options first, and if a studio does buy, not to expect that to go anywhere - apparently rights are bought up like a portfolio of stocks. And if the optioned rights do make it to the production stage, it'll take years and the studio will put their own writer(s) on it anyway. The best you can hope for is an advisory role.

AFAIK, the only reason you would write the screenplay to your novel(s) is because you are also setting up your own production company to film it, or because the studio you sold the rights to has specifically contracted you to write it.

Either way, screenplays are not presented as easy or something to take lightly. I know a few writing books I've read have covered this - Save the Cat especially, but others, too. If you've not read it already, then it might be worth dipping into that anyway.
 
Cheers, Brian. As forthright as ever! Like i said, I'm going to mull this over and research it for probably many months before I even write a word down, but I do take the point that dealing with big firms is probably tough. Maybe I'll stick to the Beeb ;)
 
What you have to be aware of in Hollywood is that all the script writers belong to a trade union (called the Writers Guild of America) and the terms and conditions under which all tv and movie writers work are negotiated by the Guild. Decades ago, the Guild negotiated a good compensation deal for writers with the movie studios. The writers got a big pay increase for their scripts and good additional benefits. However, in order to get the benefits the WGA had to give up something. What they gave up was their copyright.

This means that if you write a script and sell it to a Hollywood studio, then you also sell your copyright in that script to the studio. The studio can then do whatever it wants with what is now their script. Frequently that will include re-writing it. In fact, there is an industry in Hollywood of writers who re-write scripts to studio specifications.

The basic position, therefore, is that if you manage to sell to Hollywood then you will be well paid but you will lose your creative control. If you can live with that, fine. Some people can't and it's one of the reasons that there are quite a few writer-directors out there. They direct because directing their own films is one way for them to retain creative control over their own scripts and visions.

In terms of credits, the power to determine who is credited as a writer on a film rests solely with the Guild - not the studios. The Guild has a credit arbitration process where everyone who has worked on the script submits their version of it to a panel along with the reasons why they should be credited. The panel read all the various versions and make a decision on who should be credited. If the film is based on your original script or characters, then you may get a creation credit in the final film even if you're not a credited writer.

If you want to try screenplays for fun or for the writing exercise, I wouldn't discourage you. However, unless you have a burning desire to write screenplays, you might well be better off just trying to option your books for film. Even then, as the author of an optioned book you're likely to have zero creative control over what happens to it (unless you have sales like JK Rowling - in which case the studio will give you anything you ask for). If you look into it you'll find that there are loads of authors who optioned their work and then hated the resulting film. Alan Moore is one notable example. He routinely despises the film versions of his work. There are others. Susan Cooper sold the rights for The Dark is Rising and the film that arrived was The Seeker:The Dark is Rising - which mostly ignored the source material. Cooper was, reportedly, not happy. However, there was nothing she could do about it.

So, if you do decide to deal with Hollywood then my recommendation would be to take the money and run. I would keep your expectations about what might come out of the process low. If it turns out to be mediocre to good film, then that's probably a bonus. I realise this may sound a little cynical, but then Hollywood is kind of like that. If you can't deal with that, then don't try to. I seem to remember the late David Eddings saying that he would never sell his books to Hollywood under any circumstances.

Good luck either way.

Oh, one other thing to watch out for. There are companies known as "rights miners" who option everything they can in the hope of selling it to an actual studio for a profit at a later date. This can work if you want to "take the money and run", but may not be great if you ever expect to see something on screen. If you want a high-profile example of this just go and take a look at the debacle over the film and tv rights for Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books.
 
I would much rather write a screenplay from scratch than try and turn my own novel into one. Movies and books are very, very different mediums, and the best stories for movies are generally from short story concepts.

Turning a novel into a mini-series script would mean writing a 400-600 page script - and who's going to read that?
 
Hi DG,

I started in screenwriting, have a number of shorts made and one feature. Everything above is correct, and if you want to look up Max Landis on youtube - he has some very passionate videos on there on how the hollywood machine works from the inside perspective. He's a little crazy but grew up inside of Hollywood, and from a constructive stand point he knows the screenwriting business inside and out.

I've written a number of feature scripts, but as mentioned only one of them has been made into a film. It's not that they're bad, I've gotten so far with them in competitions and for the biggest draw back I found was that I was an original IP. Because of this, the story is an unknown and much harder to get any investment for because making a film is a gamble. The common feedback I had was that, 'if only this was already a successful book'. I've not converted books into screenplays, but I have converted two screenplays into books.

There was a point in the mid-seventies when the studios were going bankrupt because they were churning out the same thing they had for the past twenty or so years. There's a documentary called easy riders, raging bulls which showed how Dennis Hopper, Francis Ford Coppola and the likes managed to get into the system. Those doors were quickly closed. Most screenplays even when green lit don't get made, there's a black list made up every year of the best scripts not made.

The studio system has a formula and it sticks to it. That's exactly why there are so many sequels and copy cats. Studios also have preferred spec writers. These are the guys who get the call, "Hunger Games was a success, I've just bought the option on Maze Runner and I want the script by..." This is how they work.

There are always exceptions to the rule, but don't kid yourself into believing that this isn't the rule. Unless it's an original story about animals or Christmas (or animals at Christmas), you've an uphill battle. The most money grossing in the film industry is found not by the tent pole movies, they make their money off merchandise. The ones that make the money are those unknown names you scroll past on Netflix, the ones in-between the films you've seen.

However - you want to adapt your book into a screenplay. You've already got numbers you can show them. They will know better than you, and they won't take chances. Even if you have a director on board with you, they have to be strong enough to be able to have final cut of the film. Something the studios rarely give up, more now than ever.

Screenwriting is the art of the empty page. Paragraphs need to be two or three lines at the most. Dialogue punchy. Screenplays are generally 90 - 120 pages long. This is because each page is equal to one minute of screen time. The equation is slightly different for television, but it's a good rule of thumb and screenwriting software like final cut or the free one Cetlx will set the pages out to match regardless.

The first ten minutes is your inciting incident. Then twenty pages of set up and introducing your main characters. Thirty pages in and you have to have your first twist. Into the second act, all the trouble piling on until page 60 (for a 90 minute film) or page 90 (for a 120 minute film). The second act must end with the protagonist at her worst and realise what must be done to conclude the story in the last thirty pages. To break these rules you have to be recognised or have a superb story. There's no room for fat what so ever. Aaron Sorkin's script for Social Network came in over 300 pages, but it's all dialogue and everyone speaks really fast.

There's also a ruling on how many scenes you should have per act. Best practice is 14 index cards per 30 pages. It prevents you from staying in one scene too long.

This is where studios and authors don't get along and why they try to cut them out of the process. They want to stick to that formula no matter what. It's also why half the book is normally left out, because there's no room for it. Film isn't one persons vision, I believe Anne Rice wrote the screenplay for Interview - at least one version of it. Suzanne Collins wrote the script for Hunger Games so there's hope.

Another little bit on optioning, if the studio already has something in mind similar to your book. They'll option it and shelve it to prevent any competition. So if you are going to do this, make sure you read the contract thoroughly. Make sure there's a clause in there that the rights fall back to you if the film isn't made within X amount of time.

Something a little different:

Save the Cat! by Blake Snyder is a tongue in cheek look at the screen writing process.
Syd Field has a number of books and is regarded as the main man.
On Directing Film by David Mamet has volumes to speak on how films are put together.

I'm more than happy to go through more of the technical side but also don't want to teach you on sucking eggs as clearly you know how to write.

Bafta did a series called Guru which interviewed screenwriters which is also very good.
If you want to spend a little cash, Aaron Sorkin has a Master Class. It's a good foundation and covers television as well as film. I didn't learn anything from it, but found it entertaining at least. Plus - I'm a huge fan.

Most screenplays can be downloaded for free as a pdf - do what you do with books. Read the ones you like and watch the films, find the beats. oh - (BEAT) is used to convey a pause in a sentence. Shane Black, Quentin Tarantino, Woody Allen, Charlie Kaufman, Aaron Sorkin, William Godlman, The Nolan Brothers, David Mament, Lawrence Kasdan, Nora Ephron, David Goyer (check out his youtube interviews for a good understanding on how the industry works) are all good reads.

RX-79G mentioned the 400 page mini series screenplay. Completely right - no one will read that, they only want to see the first episode and treatments (one pagers) on the following episodes. This goes for the longer shows too - traditionally they'll make a pilot before signing off on the rest of the work so there is no point writing the whole thing.

I'll finish with saying that it is a different beast, but I for one love writing them. And if you do want to go down that path, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions or spring board some ideas. If I may be so bold as to suggest writing one from scratch first, just to learn the beats. Even if it's a crappy b movie.

More importantly, good luck! It's an awesome experience, one I will be doing again soon.
 
However - you want to adapt your book into a screenplay. You've already got numbers you can show them.
Assuming that the book was traditionally published and sold well, right? Otherwise it is probably even money whether it is easier to sell a screenplay to Hollywood or a book to a publisher.
 
Thanks Ted, that's another marvellous post. I have seen the Aaron sorkin classes advertised (as well as the Werner Herzog directing, Kevin Stacey acting, and Hans Zimmer scoring (which sounds awesome!)) online, and was interested, but will hold off for the moment.

I'll talk to my publisher about it, and will also talk to the Society of Authors as I'm a member and as far as I'm aware they cover UK screenwriters as well as novels etc.

But great post, thanks a million.

And I do like the idea of writing a crummy B-Movie!
 
RX - absolutely right, there's little point taking a book to a studio if it tanked. But if there's just one paragraph in that poor selling book which has turned heads you could wrangle a deal. Not the best example coming up, but they optioned the book on stranger tides and changed it to Pirates 4. Just because it had some characters they wanted and the fountain of youth. On the other side of the coin, and this is how insane hollywood is - Top Gun was made because someone saw a picture of a fighter pilot with aviator sunglasses. Didn't even read it. Just said, this would make a good film.

DG - No problems, happy to be in position to pass on useless knowledge.

Save the Cat! has to be the most enjoyable of the books I suggested, it's a couple of years old now but very entertaining.

Werner Herzog is going to be next month's frivolous purchase. And as much as I love Hans Zimmer (saw live in Manchester last year - best gig I've even been too) I can't wrap my head around music.
 
DG, I have a screenplay which I submitted to sci-fi screenfest 2015 that got to the 1.4 finals. You're welcome to read it and the judges review I got back.
 
I'm having fun exploring this at the moment but I'm looking at the indie rather than blockbuster route. There should be a screen community around you - why not give them a shout and see if anyone wants to collaborate?
 
I'm having fun exploring this at the moment but I'm looking at the indie rather than blockbuster route. There should be a screen community around you - why not give them a shout and see if anyone wants to collaborate?
It isn't very often that an indie director/filmmaker has everything but a story. Filmmakers generally go indie because they have a story to tell.
 
I think you should look into it Dan. It's something that interests you and nobody got anywhere by being defeatist.

Even if it amounts to nothing you'll have a valuable insight. You've already had great advice from two people who are actually speaking from experience in this subject...

And... in that regard... let's discuss getting Man o War on stage at Sadlers Wells as hip hop theatre :D

pH
 
It's something that interests you and nobody got anywhere by being defeatist.

Quite so. Some great advice has been given, and you know me, I'm always optimistic about writing, and willing to give things a go, so I definitely will have a crack at some point.

And... in that regard... let's discuss getting Man o War on stage at Sadlers Wells as hip hop theatre :D
Oh my, that would be epic! I can just see the bits which would lend themselves to dance interpretations now... you know, some of it might actually work!
 
There's a rather decent little run of articles about using screenwriting techniques for writing novels on this blog; its not a bad insight into basic screenplays either.

I tried to get the bloke as writ it here to wax lyrical but alas, no dice. He did warn me once on genre conventions though that he sees a lot of scripts rejected for adhering too strictly to genre, so there's that.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top