Dragons in Science Fiction

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Druico

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Hey all,

Just wanted to ask peoples opinions really on whether dragons have a place in Science Fiction stories.

In terms of a Science Fiction setting, lets say similar to the Warhammer 40K universe so advanced technology but still with a more medieval feel to it all.

What would people think about reading a story that used dragons within a Science Fiction setting? I know a lot of people don't like crossing the whole fantasy/sci-fi barrier but I think if explained properly and boundaries put in place it could work? Maybe like armour and natural scales that protects from projectiles making them like an airborne tank unless to specific dragon hunting weaponry.

Just liked the idea as it was a little different! So yeah any help or opinion would be good, don't want to invest time writing and planning it for people to shut it down just on the premise that it has dragons but also space travel etc.

Thanks all!
Dan
 
I'd like it. I tend to read a lot more fantasy than sci-fi, but that is probably the type of sci-fi that would get me to read more sci-fi.

I think Harry Turtledove sort of tried it with Into the Darkness? It's a sort of alternate WWII with dragons. I liked the idea of that, though his writing style didn't do it for me.
 
It's not so much that dragons wouldn't be believable it's more whether they would fit the world. To me the idea of ships carrying dragons and riders as well as tanks and soldiers does sound pretty awesome!
 
Juliana said:
I'd be fine with it. Really, it's no different to having any other fictional creature – say tauntauns in Star Wars.
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Well, the difference being that a tauntaun isn't a creature borrowed from a completely different mythos. Having a dragon in Star Wars would be a bit like Luke Skywalker assaulting the Death Star in a WWII Spitfire, or while riding a winged horse.

"Dragon" is a concept from medieval and Eastern myth, so when you use that word, you are purposely invoking that mythos (along with faeries, witches and goblins). So when you use it in non-fantasy, you are either invoking the earth dragon myth as a real, biological, non-magic animal (as in Reign of Fire), or you are saying that the "dragons" are alien creatures that remind the humans of dragons, even though they are not. (Like in Pern, or the Grendals in Niven's Legacy of Heorot.) Or, that the dragon is not real at all, but something like VR simulation created to look and feel like they mythical animal.

If none of those fit, then it really isn't sci fi, but fantasy that has sci fi elements. If so, all bets are off and you don't have to be concerned about a rational reason for dragons OR spaceships. But I wouldn't call that sci fi at all.
 
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Heinlein managed it quite well, with the caveat that his dragons couldn't fly - although not all "traditional" dragons could either.

It worked like this: Dragons are creatures which have a specialised part of the digestive system, evolved to create huge amounts of methane with traces of other light hydrocarbons. They also have a specialised organ in the roof of the mouth which sprays a cocktail of enzymes forward, whose effect is to make ignition of hydrocarbons happen at room temperature. So when a dragon wants to flame, it belches and at the same time sprays the catalyst into the gas stream. Voila - instant fire! Of course, gas storage is limited.

Another speculative possibility is that the metabolism of dragons is a bit odd, in that it creates diethyl ether which is then stored under pressure in specialised glands together with a catalyst like the one described above. This also explains the soporific effect of being too close to a dragon.

As for the making of ether being difficult in biology; well, biology makes much more complicated and peculiar chemicals than that! Have a look at the structural formula of the corrin ring in the middle of vitamin B12 sometime.
 
Dragons are magic. They defy science. Every story desreves an element of the unknown. Yes, fiction, all types of fictions deserves an element of the unknown.
 
goldhawk said:
Dragons are magic. They defy science. Every story desreves an element of the unknown. Yes, fiction, all types of fictions deserves an element of the unknown.
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Why do they have to be magical?

Have you seen a komodo dragon? And a pterodactyl wasn't far off. So a flying komodo? I think it's doable in sci-fi. Depends on the world and the storyline.
 
Cathbad said:
Why do they have to be magical?

Have you seen a komodo dragon? And a pterodactyl wasn't far off. So a flying komodo? I think it's doable in sci-fi. Depends on the world and the storyline.
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Whether a flying creature (of a given size) is possible depends greatly on two things; air density and gravity. Poul Anderson came up with a world with roughly Earth's gravity but much greater air density, the difference being made up with inert gases like argon but the oxygen level being roughly the same as Earth's. A real example might be Titan, with roughly the same gravity as the Moon but a denser atmosphere than Earth's. Of course, anything living on Titan would have very exotic biology by our standards!

Regarding your examples, pterodactyls were very light for their size. No chance of something like a Komodo dragon with wings working on Earth; I haven't done the maths (and don't know how to!) but such a creature would need absolutely enormous wings for a start. I doubt that living tissue could stand the strain.

The largest flying creature on Earth, the Andean condor, weighs 26 pounds. A komodo weighs 300.
 
So if it went along that dragons were a dying alien race or something similar, you could then implement alterations and designs that made them how they are? So they could be magic, but not in the sense that we conceive magic or something like that?

Just trying to think how a mounted dragon could be effective in futuristic combat with ranged weapons and heavily armoured vehicles/aircraft.
 
Druico said:
So if it went along that dragons were a dying alien race or something similar, you could then implement alterations and designs that made them how they are? So they could be magic, but not in the sense that we conceive magic or something like that?

Just trying to think how a mounted dragon could be effective in futuristic combat with ranged weapons and heavily armoured vehicles/aircraft.
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They wouldn't be effective, nor would the riders or any other kind of foot soldier (despite what you see in Avatar). The West probably won't have infantry soldiers 20 years from now - technology can replace people in direct combat, just as horses were obsolete in combat by WWI.

But you can make any kind of creature you want - if it is an alien. It can be composed of diamond, make its own force fields, yada, yada. If you want to use dragon-like beings, you can figure out some formula that will make that seem reasonable. Some people will love a tactical SF dragon, and some people will think it is a cheesy affectation.

I think it is cheesy, but there are a lot of incredibly popular books that I wouldn't bother reading. Your fellow fromage lovers will likely eat it up - if written well.
 
If you look for them, there are actualy quite a few scifi books and films with dragons in them. So if thats your thing, go for it.
 
When I mean the future and sci-fi I don't just mean in our general future with technology replacing soldiers etc. But more a far distant future of alien races at war for the galaxy and survival. So obviously different races have different technology, some not able to bring down an adult dragon or handle the power it controls.
 
Mirannan said:
Whether a flying creature (of a given size) is possible depends greatly on two things; air density and gravity. Poul Anderson came up with a world with roughly Earth's gravity but much greater air density, the difference being made up with inert gases like argon but the oxygen level being roughly the same as Earth's. A real example might be Titan, with roughly the same gravity as the Moon but a denser atmosphere than Earth's. Of course, anything living on Titan would have very exotic biology by our standards!

Regarding your examples, pterodactyls were very light for their size. No chance of something like a Komodo dragon with wings working on Earth; I haven't done the maths (and don't know how to!) but such a creature would need absolutely enormous wings for a start. I doubt that living tissue could stand the strain.

The largest flying creature on Earth, the Andean condor, weighs 26 pounds. A komodo weighs 300.
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Don't forget the amount of energy required. Planes use powerful engines to keep themselves aloft and the more powerful the engine, the less aerodynamic it has to be. To lift itself off the ground, a Komodo dragon would require big, powerful muscles. I don't think muscles can grow that big.
 
goldhawk said:
I don't think muscles can grow that big.
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What determines a muscle's strength relative to its size, though? I remember hearing that the muscles of chimpanzees are much stronger than humans', despite being no bigger. Why is this, and where does the limit lie?
 
HareBrain said:
What determines a muscle's strength relative to its size, though? I remember hearing that the muscles of chimpanzees are much stronger than humans', despite being no bigger. Why is this, and where does the limit lie?
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More like the other way around. Human muscles are weaker than most animals. This has been attributed to our ancestors being persistent hunters. You don't need big muscles to run long distances and any weight you can save makes you more efficient.

Muscular strength is proportional to the cross-sectional area. But I don't know how to calculate how much force a Komodo dragon would need to fly.
 
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