What are your Favorite Politically Incorrect Books and Stories ?

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I agree that the Baron is not interested in females, but I think it is probably important to observe that he also prefers his males to be children and disposable slaves. Calling him gay is like saying that a man that has sex with a horse represents gay or straight depending on the horse's gender, when the most pertinent fact is that it is a horse.


As far as influence, aside from Caligula I always saw the Baron as being a type of Hermann Göring.
 
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Baron Harkonnen is most certainly a gay character. His preferences are for men and Frank Herbert made this clear in the 1984 film, when he could be much more overt than he could in the 1960s when writing the book (people tend to forget that Herbert was deeply involved in plotting and structuring the film, and invented some of the stuff fans weren't keen on, like the weirding modules). The Prelude to Dune trilogy, although non-canonical, does double down on this, Brian Herbert knowing that his father had intended the character to be gay. However, the Baron was also concerned with power, dominance and narcissism, seeing in the handsome young men himself when he was younger. The only time he did have congress with a woman was at the behest of the Bene Gesserit and was against his preference.

Frank Herbert was also working through some issues on this. His second son, Bruce, was gay and they became bitterly estranged over the issue. They did not reconcile before Herbert's death in 1986 and Bruce's (from AIDS) in 1993. A common reading is that Herbert was working out his anger towards his son, especially since he revisited the issue in God-Emperor of Dune, when Duncan Idaho gets angry at the suggestion that male homosexuality is present in male-only armies (against all kinds of face and reason, when Herbert as a student of Greek history should really have known).

On top of that, it is troubling when the dictates of inclusiveness imply that a work doesn't reflect reality unless it contains an unrealistically high representation of minority characters.

I don't offer that as a defense for prejudice of any kind, but in the case of a book like Dune which only has 20 or so central characters, and the sexual preferences of only 8 of those characters is discussed, how is it reasonable to complain that those 8 don't include a member of a group that is less than 2% of the population? In the US you are more likely to be Native American/Alaskan than LGBT.

It would seem that "PC" often implies that an over-representation of formerly or currently marginalized groups is a necessary redress for a lack of inclusiveness in the past. And when your goal is to reflect the world as it really is, this is a gross distortion.

I agree this can be an issue, although the 2% figure appears to be quite low and applies to people who 100% identified as homosexual. When bisexual people and people who identify as heterosexual but have had one-off homosexual experiences (or "experimenting") are counted, this rises quite rapidly, in some counts as high as 20%. To what degree this should be reflected in fiction is of course open to debate.

However, this argument also risks being seen as deflective (not in this case), since the most common form of "non-PC" writing is seen as marginalisation of women, who make up 52% of the population but often make up a small number of the characters in a work of SF or fantasy (in the case of The Hobbit, rather famously, there isn't a single female character in the entire book), and this tends to be the thing most commonly complained about. Although this has also improved remarkably in recent years.
 
A common reading is that Herbert was working out his anger towards his son, especially since he revisited the issue in God-Emperor of Dune, when Duncan Idaho gets angry at the suggestion that male homosexuality is present in male-only armies (against all kinds of face and reason, when Herbert as a student of Greek history should really have known).
Is Herbert the primitive Duncan Idaho, or is Leto's actual memories of Greece the voice of the writer? Duncan is an all-too-human soldier, not a source of wisdom.

As far as Herbert's intent to depict a "gay" character, the Baron and Feyd are both shown to be sadistic sexual victimizers who are not judgmental of each other's "appetites". Herbert seems to be equally disgusted with both the hetero- and homosexual expression of rape. I don't think it is fair to Herbert to use the struggles of his personal life to say that the Baron was intended as a criticism of homosexuality anymore than Feyd is a criticism of heterosexuality. That isn't in the text.

When bisexual people and people who identify as heterosexual but have had one-off homosexual experiences (or "experimenting") are counted, this rises quite rapidly, in some counts as high as 20%.
People who identify as bisexual are an additional 1.8%. Counting every other person who has had a homosexual thought or action doesn't really apply to much of anything because those people don't look or act in reality or fiction any different than any other heterosexual. Feel free to point at every 5th heterosexual person in a story and tell yourself that they've had some gay moment in their life if you want, but it won't change their actions or motivations in the fiction at all.
 
Of course there's always the problem that a villainous character, especially one along the debauched Goering/Caligula lines, will be much more excessive and visible in everything they do than a good guy. I've no idea what, say, Thufir Hawat's interests were, because they're probably unremarkable for the Dune world (whatever that means) and didn't come into the story. I remember reading an article somewhere saying that Prunesquallor from Gormenghast was gay: I'd always just assumed him to be entirely sexless.

I don't know much about Herbert himself, but I'd always assumed that he was very well read, given the various references in Dune, and essentially a reasonable guy (much as I would assume that Lovecraft wasn't!). It would be interesting to know if he'd written himself into Dune somewhere: I always wondered if his closest equivalent was Kynes.
 
This thread seems to rapidly move from people simply naming their fave Politically Incorrect books and stories to diatribes explaining everyones 'right on' convinctions.

Biggles in Africa?
 
Yeah, Biggles really epitomises an almost unconscious imperial arrogance commonly found in a lot of pre-1960s British children's fiction.
Biggles and the Cruise of the Condor was a cracking story when I was 10.
 
Politically incorrect? Well, John Ringo's Paladin of Shadows series has to be right up there.
 
Narnia - if you object to Susan being condemned for her love of nylons, the depiction of the Calormenes etc.

John Buchan - I love John McNab and don't mind them all being Tories, though Greenmantle with it's "Wasn't World War I a jolly jape" went a bit too far for me.
 
I've also got to mention "...And Ladies of the Club" which if anyone here fancies a doorstop read about a women's book group in a small Ohio town covering six decades is truly unmissable (actually its truly engrossing). I read some reviews taking it to task for the views of its characters re race, gender, class, sexual preference, politics etc etc...which seemed to completely miss the point, for of course the views of the characters were what they would have been, given the time and place they lived.
 
Yeah, Biggles really epitomises an almost unconscious imperial arrogance commonly found in a lot of pre-1960s British children's fiction.
Biggles and the Cruise of the Condor was a cracking story when I was 10.

They tried it as a film in 1986.
 
Has anyone mentioned Vonnegut's early story "Harrsion Bergeron" on this thread? There's a politically incorrect story for you.
 
I wonder whether anyone is ever going to dare to write a story featuring those famous gentlemen, Yuri Rayciss and Dindu Nuffin.
 
Has anyone here read Wilson Tucker's The Year of the Quiet Sun (which I find to be a haunting time travel story)? In this novel, America is coming apart due to racial conflict -- black militants have nuclear weapons, etc., as I recall. I wondered if the story would arouse sensitivities today such that the story would not be likely to appear as written. If I included it in a course, I would wonder if there would be objectsons about "cultural appropriation." Though Tucker was white, the narrator is black.

Wikipedia:

"It won a retrospective John W. Campbell Memorial Award in 1976. It was also nominated for a Nebula Award for Best Novel in 1970, and a Hugo Award for Best Novel in 1971."
 
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