The Orville - 2.08: Identity, Part 1

[REBerg]

Spoiler: 2.08 Identity

Holy Cybermen!
I was thinking that I was in store for yet another personal relationship soap opera episode, when suddenly, all cyberhell broke loose!
Great action. Who would have guessed that Isaac, the tin teddy bear, was packing such lethal weaponry beneath his chrome dome? I suspect that he may prove to be the key to dissuading his leaders from their conviction that the only good organic is a dead organic. After all, Isaac's the one with the baby blue eyes.

 

[Jeffbert]

The scene with all those guys standing around, apparently working in synchronicity, reminds me of a similar one from Lang's METROPOLIS.

Now, I am thinking of bees or ants.

So things kind of went from strange to bad. Should have seen it coming, when they took the Orville into the atmosphere, and docked, rather than using the shuttles to access the surface.

Spoiler

when the bridge crew viewed the image of piles of human remains, they should have exited, stage right or left, but quickly. It seems to me, that the script writers made the crew rather dumb. Surely biological beings created the robot guys, and their complete absence suggests that the robot guys [sorry, I forgot what they are called] eradicated them. But once their ship had been powered-down, while they were still in orbit, it was already too late.

Anyway, other than that [sse spoiler], this was the best episode so far.

 

[Dave]

Anyway, other than that, this was the best episode so far.

As it is the first time they've done a two-part episode, they obviously think it is good themselves.

I have reservations about two part episodes as they come in two kinds - 1. all filler in the first part to set up for a rollercoaster second part or 2. a rollercoaster first part with a cliffhanging ending which leads to a big let down as it is quickly resolved in the second part. This was especially true in the Borg episodes of TNG to which the similarity is striking (I think the AIs working on the wall looked as much like Borg in a Cube as Metropolis.)

The Orville does a terrible job with first contacts. As it escalated badly were you also looking at the clock thinking, "They can't just do a rest button and fix this, can they?"

Spoiler: Isaac and the Kaylons

We haven't seen a battle where the ship was taken over before or so many crew died. If there is a solution where Earth is not destroyed then it must somehow lie with Isaac but I really hope they don't do another Isaac 'grows beyond his machine programming to become human' trope story and can find some new story to tell here.

Like @REBerg I thought Isaac was just there for comedy, and I also thought, "Here we go with yet another relationship episode!" I guess we should have listened more to the reports that he was sending back and his superior attitude. The clues were all there for us. I didn't see the guns inside his head though, and the caves full of bones was extreme. Then they bring on the Kaylon death rings!

One possible outcome would be for the Krill to join the alliance.

 

[Jeffbert]

I misspoke earlier, when I said that there was just one little thing that seemed weak:

...
So things kind of went from strange to bad. Should have seen it coming, when they took the Orville into the atmosphere, and docked, rather than using the shuttles to access the surface.

Spoiler

when the bridge crew viewed the image of piles of human remains, they should have exited, stage right or left, but quickly. It seems to me, that the script writers made the crew rather dumb. Surely biological beings created the robot guys, and their complete absence suggests that the robot guys [sorry, I forgot what they are called] eradicated them. But once their ship had been powered-down, while they were still in orbit, it was already too late.

Anyway, other than that [sse spoiler], this was the best episode so far.

the really weak element, as I saw it:

Spoiler

the kid had access codes to the airlock! I would thank that they might have at least had a guard posted there, but why did the 8-year-old boy have the codes?

Why was he, & those who went out to seek him, able to go through the Kaylons' building, descend to ground level & go outside? Nobody or Kaylons there saw them, nobody said "humans, where goest thou?" I assume that the building that had a docking facility on it, should have been a secure area.

o.K., so, the Kaylons being of one mind (I guess), would have little use for security officers. But those that entered the Orville, certainly were suited for that task.

As it is the first time they've done a two-part episode, they obviously think it is good themselves.

I have reservations about two part episodes as they come in two kinds - 1. all filler in the first part to set up for a rollercoaster second part or 2. a rollercoaster first part with a cliffhanging ending which leads to a big let down as it is quickly resolved in the second part. This was especially true in the Borg episodes of TNG to which the similarity is striking (I think the AIs working on the wall looked as much like Borg in a Cube as Metropolis.)

The Orville does a terrible job with first contacts. As it escalated badly were you also looking at the clock thinking, "They can't just do a rest button and fix this, can they?"

Spoiler: Isaac and the Kaylons

We haven't seen a battle where the ship was taken over before or so many crew died. If there is a solution where Earth is not destroyed then it must somehow lie with Isaac but I really hope they don't do another Isaac 'grows beyond his machine programming to become human' trope story and can find some new story to tell here.

Like @REBerg I thought Isaac was just there for comedy, and I also thought, "Here we go with yet another relationship episode!" I guess we should have listened more to the reports that he was sending back and his superior attitude. The clues were all there for us. I didn't see the guns inside his head though, and the caves full of bones was extreme. Then they bring on the Kaylon death rings!

One possible outcome would be for the Krill to join the alliance.

I never watched TNG, beyond the 1st dvd, so, I am stuck here. As far as 2 part stories go, same thing. I really have little to go on. Though, it seems to me that your argument makes sense.

Spoiler

I would hardly think that the end of the next episode, the Kaylons would say, "oops, sorry we attempted to eradicate all biological sentient beings in the galaxy. We won't do it again."

 

[Dave]

Let's stop with the spoilers now as it is too complicated. For anyone else,

SPOILERS FOR EPISODES 2.08 and BEYOND FOLLOW
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the kid had access codes to the airlock! I would thank that they might have at least had a guard posted there, but why did the 8-year-old boy have the codes?

Why was he, & those who went out to seek him, able to go through the Kaylons' building, descend to ground level & go outside? Nobody or Kaylons there saw them, nobody said "humans, where goest thou?"

Yes, I forgot to mention that but I thought the same. Even if it was that easy to walk off the Orville, it seemed too easy to walk around the city unseen, and then there was the conveniently opening vent!

I would hardly think that the end of the next episode, the Kaylons would say, "oops, sorry we attempted to eradicate all biological sentient beings in the galaxy. We won't do it again."

I agree, this episode is a game-changer. However, you say that you never watched TNG. (By the way, that is a big mistake, and almost unbelievable. Skip the first and second Seasons if you must.) In, TNG the Borg went from being a totally invincible enemy who were ruthlessly aggressive, unstoppable and uncompromising, to a kind of pet android, and then to Voyager's pin up. Resistance is Futile became kill the Queen with a virus and the rest will be free. Along the way, they had a few pet Borg like Hugh. The Borg ability to adapt and to consume other species made them the ultimate galactic climax species. They should have taken over everything. They just ruined the Borg.

But enough about the Borg. My point is that the trope of the android who grows beyond his machine programming to become human is much more common theme in science fiction. It is allied to the machines are always chaotic evil trope. They have deliberately kept Isaac's blue eyes and made a point of saying that he was designed differently for a reason. He is clearly destined to be their saviour, or at least their prophet. I just know that I won't like whatever they will do with him. Isaac has never shown any emotion (and Claire has tried damn hard to get him to.) So, to have him change now will be like making the Daleks have emotions or watering down the Borg.

 

[Jeffbert]

Hmmm, I am just too busy to watch TNG at this time; but thanks for the advice.

It seems to me, that the Kaylons should be able to simulate emotion, even if it did not actually affect them as such. It would be pretending. So long as it served their purpose, it should -- oh, did not Isaac wear a simulated skin, complete with the male member? Surely, he pretended emotion, else the Doc would not have been satisfied.

 

[Dave]

He pretended emotion, exactly. He didn't care about Claire except as a study subject. Ditto for the two boys, which was the point of him dropping the drawing. However, I can see that something is going to happen next week where Isaac will discover that Kaylons NEED to have real emotions. If you think about it, they have been foreshadowing that on the show for many weeks - on several occasions, telling him that he must have emotions to fully understand humans.

 

[Jeffbert]

But, why even bother with understanding them, when they intend

Spoiler

to eradicate them.

 

[Dave]

Exactly my point again. If they are superior beings who believe emotions only get in the way of being superior then what could possibly change their minds. Daleks, Borg, Cybermen, Vulcans, Terminators - none need emotions but somehow that is what they were always missing.

This time can we have a different story?

 

[Jeffbert]

I anticipate laughing myself red in the face when I watch pt. 2.