When should you admit defeat and abandon that novel?

[jlivs]

If you've queried all the agents you had listed and have had no requests back, at what point do you move on and leave that novel behind?

I wrote my first novel and after gathering quite a short list of UK agents that stated they accepted fantasy work, I began querying. Since this was my first shot, I was disappointed but not surprised when I got rejected or no replies across the board.

So that being the case, should I just call it quits on that work? I've no idea if it was the query letter or (far more likely) the section of the manuscript I submitted that wasn't generating any interest. In either case, do you swing in the dark and take the time to make changes and try resubmitting (which I was given to understand wasn't appreciated generally)? Or do you just admit defeat and concentrate on the next one?

Interested to hear people's thoughts!

 

[The Judge]

Have you had the novel read and critiqued by someone other than family and friends? Have you had any professional help in developmental editing?

If the answer to both is "no" then I'd say it's too early to give up on this one. Chances are if this is your first novel and you've had no help from people who know what they're talking about, then what you've submitted just isn't ready. (Most of us have done this, so you're in excellent company, if I say so myself!)

So the next step is to find out whether this novel needs work to get it up to standard. If there is a writing group near you, then join it. If not, consider starting one! In addition, stay here, join in other threads, and when you've hit 30 counted posts (not all posts in every area of the site are counted for this purpose) you can put the first few hundred words up in our Critiques section. The feedback you get from that will help you judge what if anything needs doing. If it's clear there is work to be done on your story, then it's a case of knuckling down and doing it, and it may be the work involved is so extensive that by the time you've finished the umpteenth draft of the novel it will bear no relation to what you've sent out recently -- plus some considerable time may have gone by -- in which case you can send it out again. If on the other hand there is little that needs doing to the opening, and you can round up some beta readers to give you feedback on the whole book and they say the same, then it may be it's time to consider self-publishing, if that appeals to you.

In any event at some point you will have to move on and write something else -- whether you self publish or get taken up by a traditional publisher, you'll need something to follow it up -- so why don't you start on that new story at the same time? I know at least one member found she learned more writing her second novel than in trying to revise the first to bring it up to scratch.

By the way, although I can see why you've started this in the trad publishing section, I think it's more a general matter so I'll move it over to General Writing Discussion.

And before I forget -- Welcome to Chrons!!

 

[Dan Jones]

Welcome to Chrons!

I shall echo The Judge's comments insofar as, if you haven't had it professionally edited, or at least critiqued and eta-read by your peers, that would be the logical next step, because you could improve the manuscript in ways you possibly haven't imagined. If this is the case, I'd stop subbing it immediately, because a rejection is a bridge burned - you won't usually be able to sub the same novel twice to the same agent.

If you feel like you've whipped it into shape as far as you can, then maybe it is time to move on.

It's a tricky one, because only you will know in your heart how ready it is, and how much work it would need to whip it into shape. Sometimes it's manageable and fixable, and sometimes it just isn't. My first novel was an epic fantasy. Over four years I managed six or seven drafts / rewrites trying to fix some pretty fundamental problems. During that time I had it beta'd and critiqued by people, including some fine folks from round these parts. And in the end, after a lot of slog, I decide it wasn't fixable, and had to move on. It was a wrench at the time, but liberating, and I'll echo The Judge a second time: all the things I learned in that failed novel I was able to apply in my second novel, which was accepted by a publisher. There's only so much flogging a dead horse one can do. But ultimately it's your judgment.

The good news is that you've written a novel, you've completed it, and written queries for it. Which means that, whatever happens, you can do it again!

 

[jlivs]

Thanks to The Judge and Dan for your replies - great advice. I must admit, while I did send the ms out to people, they were all people I'd consider friends so I can't imagine the feedback was particularly objective. I think gathering some beta readers would be an excellent move.

I'm working on my second novel now and had pretty much given up on the first but between this and having recently found a handful of agents that I hadn't submitted it to, I think there's still some effort I can put into moving the first one forward.

Thanks again!

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Get the start up on the critiques board when you hit 30 posts and see if there is anything standing out. And agents are only one route - there are small publishers and also self publishing

 

[The Big Peat]

While agreeing with the rest of the advice - I'd also add there's no point just sitting on a submission and waiting and seeing - you should be starting work on the next book anyway.

But yes. Put some fresh objective eyes on it and see what people think. Then plot your next move from there.

 

[TheDustyZebra]

One thing you can do to get that post count up, as well as get to know us and let us get to know you, is to jump into the writing Challenges we have here. You're lucky this month, because there's both a 75-word story challenge and a 300-word story challenge. Check out the rules and sharpen that pencil! (Do count words carefully, repeatedly, and by hand, and if you have any doubtful ones, ask a mod, as we hate having to pull a story for being over-limit.) Many people have found the Challenges to be useful in honing their writing skills, and they're fun as well!

 

[tinkerdan]

You do want to move on and continue writing; unless you are a one trick pony.

However what you should do with the present manuscript is::
Put it aside while you work and every so often bring it back out and re-examine it and see if you think you can make it better.
If not--then send it around again, preferably to places you haven't sent it yet.
If it does look to need work then clean it up before sending it around.
If you are undecided put it aside to look at again.

I would also agree to presenting the work for the critique section here once you get in 30 legitimate posts.

However I might add that when you have time you might go back through the critique work posted and observe how it works and what some of the advice is prior to setting your work out. That way when you prepare to set your work forward you will have a more critical eye from what you learn to fix some things before you put it out there.

I did this when I first approached this forum and learned quite a bit. I think there is more to learn by doing that and by offering critique then there is from tossing your own work out there hastily. So while you are getting the 30 legitimate posts you can be doing research that is valuable.

 

[jlivs]

Get the start up on the critiques board when you hit 30 posts and see if there is anything standing out. And agents are only one route - there are small publishers and also self publishing

Thanks Jo!

 

[jlivs]

While agreeing with the rest of the advice - I'd also add there's no point just sitting on a submission and waiting and seeing - you should be starting work on the next book anyway.

But yes. Put some fresh objective eyes on it and see what people think. Then plot your next move from there.

Hi there, thanks for that advice!

 

[jlivs]

One thing you can do to get that post count up, as well as get to know us and let us get to know you, is to jump into the writing Challenges we have here. You're lucky this month, because there's both a 75-word story challenge and a 300-word story challenge. Check out the rules and sharpen that pencil! (Do count words carefully, repeatedly, and by hand, and if you have any doubtful ones, ask a mod, as we hate having to pull a story for being over-limit.) Many people have found the Challenges to be useful in honing their writing skills, and they're fun as well!

Writing challenges sound like a great idea thanks I'll definitely be giving those a go

 

[jlivs]

You do want to move on and continue writing; unless you are a one trick pony.

However what you should do with the present manuscript is::
Put it aside while you work and every so often bring it back out and re-examine it and see if you think you can make it better.
If not--then send it around again, preferably to places you haven't sent it yet.
If it does look to need work then clean it up before sending it around.
If you are undecided put it aside to look at again.

I would also agree to presenting the work for the critique section here once you get in 30 legitimate posts.

However I might add that when you have time you might go back through the critique work posted and observe how it works and what some of the advice is prior to setting your work out. That way when you prepare to set your work forward you will have a more critical eye from what you learn to fix some things before you put it out there.

I did this when I first approached this forum and learned quite a bit. I think there is more to learn by doing that and by offering critique then there is from tossing your own work out there hastily. So while you are getting the 30 legitimate posts you can be doing research that is valuable.

Thanks Tinkerdan thats some good advice.

I'm definitely still writing - I'm not ready to give up on this just yet (I've got too many stories I want to tell)

I've also joined a couple of facebook groups where offering to read the work from other writers and I'll be adopting the same approach here

 

[Mad Alice]

Thanks to The Judge and Dan for your replies - great advice. I must admit, while I did send the ms out to people, they were all people I'd consider friends so I can't imagine the feedback was particularly objective. I think gathering some beta readers would be an excellent move.

I'm working on my second novel now and had pretty much given up on the first but between this and having recently found a handful of agents that I hadn't submitted it to, I think there's still some effort I can put into moving the first one forward.

Thanks again!

I need reading material, and was going to pop over to the library. But if you wanted to send over the first chapter? I could give it a go and tell you my impressions. (I must warn I'm quite harsh and demanding of my reading though. I don't candy coat for people's vanity)

 

[jlivs]

I need reading material, and was going to pop over to the library. But if you wanted to send over the first chapter? I could give it a go and tell you my impressions. (I must warn I'm quite harsh and demanding of my reading though. I don't candy coat for people's vanity)

Hi Alice - that sounds great! I'm quite happy to receive harsh feedback (I think..) how should I send it over to you?

 

[TheDustyZebra]

It's also a good idea to wander around in the Critiques section and see if there's anything you can weigh in on to help others. It can help you to see if maybe you're doing any of the things that others are getting called up on, and reading others' critiques can give you a good idea of their style and particular knowledge for when they start on yours.

 

[Mad Alice]

Hi Alice - that sounds great! I'm quite happy to receive harsh feedback (I think..) how should I send it over to you?

Did you want to put it into a pm? Or would you prefer email?
Not to worry. There's nothing to fear except fear itself - and editing.

Gets out red pen. Reconsiders. Gets out rainbow assortment of coloured pens.