The Wargaming Thread

[Toby Frost]

Right then, here it is: a thread for tabletop games and wargames, ranging from skirmish games all the way up to those ones where you recreate the Battle of Waterloo.

I started off doing this sort of thing when I was about 14, and I played Heroquest and Warhammer Fantasy Battle against my friends. Games seemed to take about six weeks, not including the arguments about the rules (which we barely understood at the best of times). Although I stopped playing large games, I retained an interest in painting and building models, especially converting them, and I do still play the odd game or two.

These days, it tends to be either the very heavy-duty board game types (Shadows of Brimstone and Zombicide: Black Plague feature heavily) or the small-scale, roleplaying-type wargames such as Necromunda, where each model can improve between games. Historical games don't really interest me much, and I'm still more into the making of things rather than the playing side.

I'd be interested to see if there are any other gamers out there.

 

[Vladd67]

I used to wargame every week, mainly Warhammer and WWII. A friend of mine has literally thousands of pounds worth of figures and vehicles, he has been collecting for nearly 40 years, he is divorced with no kids and a few years back as he approached 50 he decided he had nothing else in his life to spend his money on so why skimp. So every week he umpires a battle that usually lasts three sessions and the usual group of friends attend, however he once said we weren't challenging enough for him and he got better games at a local war games club, over the last couple of years he managed to alienate three of our group, and the rest of us used to joke who would be next, then guess what, he sent me an email saying basically after 18 years I should be playing better and I should up my game or not bother coming. I now play occasionally with another friend who has a family, job, and realises there is more to life than Wargaming. Ok so we don't play the massive battles or campaigns like we used to but we have fun. So now I mainly play X-Wing, 40K, and Frostgrave. I did briefly join a local club but discovered I preferred the social side rather than the gaming side, so now the games are smaller but more fun.
Sorry to rant a little but it's still a sore point, I had no idea our friendship was dependent on my skill at Wargaming.

 

[Cathbad]

Sorry to rant a little but it's still a sore point, I had no idea our friendship was dependent on my skill at Wargaming.

I've been playing RPG's for 40 years (save the last few). Played a few wargames too. I've always loathed the people you described. I have also noted that they are usually not the best players.

I've gamed so long because, like you, I've enjoyed the social aspect most.

 

[Toby Frost]

Yes, there are some bad people and some good ones in wargaming. The worst ones definitely give it a bad name. Generally, I've found that the less intense end of the scale is much more my sort of thing, and I only play against friends. Some of the best gaming blogs I've followed have been by graphic designers and illustrators, who use their day-job skills to make amazing things, and older writers who approach it from a fun, nostalgic way. The "Oldhammer" movement has got very strong in the last couple of years. That said, I do dread some kind of wargaming equivalent of Gamergate breaking out.

 

[Vladd67]

When we did a warhammer campaign we used 6th edition, but it became a little complicated with newer models as they needed 8th edition army lists. Throw in our many house rules and it got to the stage that nearly every turn ended up with much page turning.

 

[Overread]

I've always been in a bit of wargames deadzone in that it came and went as a school hobby before my time and where I live its a good hours drive to get anywhere where there's somewhere to game. I've collected on and off for years though - mostly Tyranids and Legion of Everblight.

My biggest shame is never learning to properly paint and it still dogs me today; one day I keep saying I'll sit down and really learn how to paint even at a basic level!

 

[reiver33]

I've been playing 'proper' wargames (with rules and dice and everything) for over 45 years. I'm a historical gamer; just about every period from Biblical 25mm through to Ultra Modern (1980s) 6mm, including aerial and naval. I used to attend competitions; 15mm Nationals (Ancients, Medieval, and Renaissance) plus Firefly (6mm WW2), but eventually played one too many 'must win' opponents to make it enjoyable. Not so much I found them a pain in the arse, but they brought out the 'rules lawyer' side of me (at the time I was a senior systems analyst and pretty much the poster boy for 'picky').

My local club is currently going through an AWI/ACW phase (28mm), with Warhammer Historical and Flames of War consigned to the dustbin of history...

 

[Cathbad]

Best Wargammer GM I ever met was at a convention in Tampa, FL. Can't recall his name right now, but it'll come to me in a few days.

He was about 60 (my age now, but this was probably 30 years ago), and a Vietnam vet. His scenarios were extremely well written (a few published), and he was an intense, but fair and jovial GM. He was such a pleasure, my Gaming club immediately approved him as a Guest of Honor at our own convention, when I suggested him. (FWIW we also had the creator of the Paranoia RPG as well - too bad the crowd was much smaller than we'd expected.)

If there were many more like him, the Gaming industry would see a second Golden Age.

 

[Overread]

I'm always sad that Warmaster never caught on and that that scale of games doesn't have much luck with fantasy nor sci-fi. There's a host of companies making various small scale models and rules systems; but only Warmaster really had large scale appeal and even that was niche. It's a shame as to me its an ideal way to have rank and file and to have potential of creatures like dragons to blaze through whole squads without feeling broken - whilst in 32mm a dragon can't just fly through and incinerate 20 troops because that could be half of some armies.

 

[thaddeus6th]

I have a vague awareness of Warhammer stuff, and I'm not sure if this counts but I did create a virtual sort of war-gaming/strategy game for the ancient/medieval world a while ago [had two versions]. I haven't run a game for ages because they last a long time and the battles were time-consuming (for me, as the chap running it, for players they were only difficult in determining tactics and deployment). Not quite the same thing, I suppose.

 

[Galactic Journey]

Right then, here it is: a thread for tabletop games and wargames, ranging from skirmish games all the way up to those ones where you recreate the Battle of Waterloo.

I started off doing this sort of thing when I was about 14, and I played Heroquest and Warhammer Fantasy Battle against my friends. Games seemed to take about six weeks, not including the arguments about the rules (which we barely understood at the best of times). Although I stopped playing large games, I retained an interest in painting and building models, especially converting them, and I do still play the odd game or two.

These days, it tends to be either the very heavy-duty board game types (Shadows of Brimstone and Zombicide: Black Plague feature heavily) or the small-scale, roleplaying-type wargames such as Necromunda, where each model can improve between games. Historical games don't really interest me much, and I'm still more into the making of things rather than the playing side.

I'd be interested to see if there are any other gamers out there.

*raises hand*

Rather obsessively, though generally not the miniature kind; rather, the Hex and Counter kind. I've taken great delight in introducing a new generation to the hobby. I'm 43, and the median age of my crowd is early 30s. Good gender ratio, too.

We have a room just for wargaming:

And we got blue carpet in the living room just to do naval miniature gaming!

 

[Cathbad]

Great room!

 

[Galactic Journey]

Thank you! It is well used. Though on Wargame Weekends, we generally fill three, sometimes four rooms.

 

[thaddeus6th]

That room looks great

Get a little bronze plaque "The Gaming Chamber", perhaps?

 

[Toby Frost]

Lots of us, then! That's a very impressive room, Galactic Journey. My desk tends to be half-lost under a heap of semi-dismantled kits.

One thing I've found is that I'm less and less interested in the competitive element of gaming. I would still play against an opponent to win, but I've found that some of the big systems are so creaky that some sides are just better and others and it's hard to get a level playing-field. There's a risk of investing a lot of time and energy into making the models, designing the army and so on, just to lose to a faulty system. I've got increasingly interested in co-operative games, which tend to be the Heroquest board game sort rather than big wargames.

 

[Galactic Journey]

Lots of us, then! That's a very impressive room, Galactic Journey. My desk tends to be half-lost under a heap of semi-dismantled kits.

One thing I've found is that I'm less and less interested in the competitive element of gaming. I would still play against an opponent to win, but I've found that some of the big systems are so creaky that some sides are just better and others and it's hard to get a level playing-field. There's a risk of investing a lot of time and energy into making the models, designing the army and so on, just to lose to a faulty system. I've got increasingly interested in co-operative games, which tend to be the Heroquest board game sort rather than big wargames.

It is so interesting you say this.

I've never been a fan of Euros, and I've ironically found Euro-players way more competitive than Wargamers. I play to win, of course, but I'm much more interested in 1) the problem-solving aspect of the wargame, and 2) the historical simulation unrolling before my eyes.

Only wargames really scratch that itch. Admittedly, you can get "wargames" without much war in them -- grand-strategic political simulations, for instance, but you know what I mean.

That said, there is a lot less investment in Hex and Counter than miniatures (says the fellow with hundreds of little ships, but that's my one concession to the vice)

 

[Toby Frost]

Sorry, what are Euros? I'm definitely of the view that it is more irritating to lose than it is enjoyable to win, which puts me off the strict game-of-chess approach. I saw one interesting blog where the players were given a small and limited side (it was an old edition of Fantasy Battle) and an objective, and the players effectively used the game to tell a story rather than to see who was the "best" competitor.

Recently I played a skirmish game where one side - the fast, "finesse" side - wiped out the other in two turns. It was pretty clear that it hadn't been properly playtested. This does seem to be a real risk with wargames and, given the sheer number of permutations you could have in a game, it's not surprising.

 

[Foxbat]

Hex and counters for me. Started off in the 70s with Simulation Publications and Avalon Hill games. Played the monster Drang Nach Osten from Game Designers Workshop a couple of times but eventually gave up due to lack of opponents in my area. I still have a large collection of games (including all of Advanced Squad Leader up to and including Doomed Battalions).

For some reason I was never that interested in RPG, Warhammer or miniatures but do enjoy building the odd model now and then

 

[Galactic Journey]

Sorry, what are Euros? I

It gladdens my heart to hear someone say that

Symmetrical, mechanic-based games, generally with a theme tacked on. They take .5-3 hours. Settlers of Catan is the Ur-Euro.

They are not designed to be simulations. They are designed to be played and won. Theme is secondary.

 

[Galactic Journey]

Hex and counters for me. Started off in the 70s with Simulation Publications and Avalon Hill games. Played the monster Drang Nach Osten from Game Designers Workshop a couple of times but eventually gave up due to lack of opponents in my area. I still have a large collection of games (including all of Advanced Squad Leader up to and including Doomed Battalions).

Very nice! You might enjoy this tour through S&T's first five years (meant to go the whole way, but ran out of spare time...still, a pretty good project)