Game of Thrones: 7.02 - Stormborn

[ctg]

Daenerys receives an unexpected visitor; Jon faces a revolt; Tyrion plans the conquest of Westeros.

 

[zmunkz]

Daenerys receives an unexpected visitor

Curious. Who would be unexpected at this stage, arriving without an army (assuming we aren’t already up to the battles)? The Red Woman maybe?

 

[Koopa]

This episode was a tad boring for me. Could have done with a bit of editing. I mean the conversation at the war councils took 35-40 minutes. Leaving us with only 20 minutes of genuine stuff happening. A couple of good Cersei/Euron moves to keep the war and suspence in balance. With Euron and Cersei move, Danaerys plan of laying siege to King's Landing by using the Tyrells and Martells have been basically wiped off the board. Easy victory for Euron. I kept thinkingto myself though were the Martell guards were. Normally you bring along a few at the least, or at least a ship of their own... . They made Theon escape look like cowardice and betrayal, and I guess it was. But realistically there was nothing he could have done at that point but get himself captured and possible killed as well. LOL at him being able to flee just from jumping overboard... No nets, no arrows, no spears... .

She(Danaerys) will definitely conquer Casterly Rock though. Add that siege crossbow and things are evened out a little bit. So basically 1 dragon is going to die. Unless GRRM and showcreators totally go against common narrative, 2 other dragons will survive so that new eggs can be laid and stuff.

Hot Pie fulfiled his role was to bring Arya back home. Her conversation + running across Nymeria whom promtly leaves her again, and Arya saying something along the line of that wasn't her leaves me thinking they wanted to point out Arya is no longer the northern girl we used to know but something else. At least that is what I'm thinking they trying to show. Maybe they wanted to show you can't just pick back up what you left behind/chased away. Any other thoughts? Cause honestly, whilst you may no longer be the same person you once were, you can also never be someone else than yourself. So Arya is still Arya from house Stark and it felt a bit contradictive to her choosing family over revenge just moments earlier. I guess they can work side by side.

Basically Jon has confirmed that he and Littlefinger are enemies. Don't think he'll need to watch out for Petyr though. As clearly that game will be played out between Sansa and Littlefinger.

 

[ctg]

The Red Woman maybe?

How did you know? I thought she would have stayed at the Wall, thinking about how badly she can ef up King of the North, if she meddles in the business. The Red Woman is only lucky the Lord of Light heard her prayers and she should be grateful for that rather than running South to Dragonstone.

The whole invoking the prophesy felt so deliberately placed that I thought for a moment she's back in the throne business. It would have been proper to see Stanis' ghost dwelling at the background; chained to her until the end of days. In her shoes I would have warned Deanery's about staying in the Dragonstone as that island is far easier to siege than King's Landing.

With the Iron Fleet in bits I don't think they can muster enough of men to hold the original plan. Queen Cercei got unbelievably lucky and whole fleet action felt like a giant conspiracy. Would it even be possibly to sail into the heart of the fleet "of biggest and the best ships" without alerting everyone? I mean these men has sailed and fought side by side for a long time, and it's in everyone's mind that two half are now enemies.

When those fire bolts started raining in, the raiders were already within the fleet. As if someone had let it happe and that seems impossible. And I know they don't have radars, but it's pretty difficult to get into a big blob without clashing with the outer perimeter first. You have to have submarines to be able to do that without getting a crash, but those are in a very limited supply at that world.

I believe they exist somewhere and possibly resemble diving balls/bells rather than the traditional shapes. Still I guess Dornish had it coming for the past deeds. Those three sisters didn't last long in the hands of raiders. Although I believe that Greyjoy marauder mortally wounded at femoral artery. He just was too pissed to realise how dead he were when he grabbed Yara and forced Theon to bail over the board.

To be honest it was a wise move from his behalf even though it branded him as a coward. Speaking of those things I believe Varys showed of possessing a great pair of balls to being able to confront the Queen of Dragon's in the way he did. He even smiled and admitted that roasting in the dragon fire, would be the only way he would depart from the world.

I hope Karma wasn't listening as I cannot imagine any more horrifying way to die. It would be horribly painful. More so than what Mormont suffered in Samwell's hands. A flask of rum isn't a proper painkiller. Especially not when half of it has gone into the doctor already. But as always the knight without the queen or the country took it without even losing his consciousness.

Why Sam didn't offer him the milk of poppy?

 

[zmunkz]

How did you know?

I wasn’t sure by any means, but by looking at the “orphaned” characters of late ... (Sandor, Aria, red woman, etc) she seemed most plausible. I agree that after seeing Jon resurrected she would probably have decided he was her prophecy. I guess she got more info off-screen.

I mean these men has sailed and fought side by side for a long time, and it's in everyone's mind that two half are now enemies.

100% agree. They should be matched at least, but they were vastly out-gunned and the sisters suddenly forgot how good they are at fighting.

I believe Varys showed of possessing a great pair of balls to being able to confront the Queen of Dragon's in the way he did. He even smiled and admitted that roasting in the dragon fire, would be the only way he would depart from the world.

Yeah for sure. I didn’t think it was the best place for Dany to invoke images of the mad king burning people alive, but I guess it was her way of saying she is still a mother of dragons, even if she tries to be an ethical one.

Why Sam didn't offer him the milk of poppy?

Huh, good question. In any case, that was a brilliant cut from Sam’s blade to the pie.

 

[Needle]

Hot Pie fulfiled his role was to bring Arya back home. Her conversation + running across Nymeria whom promtly leaves her again, and Arya saying something along the line of that wasn't her leaves me thinking they wanted to point out Arya is no longer the northern girl we used to know but something else. At least that is what I'm thinking they trying to show. Maybe they wanted to show you can't just pick back up what you left behind/chased away. Any other thoughts? Cause honestly, whilst you may no longer be the same person you once were, you can also never be someone else than yourself. So Arya is still Arya from house Stark and it felt a bit contradictive to her choosing family over revenge just moments earlier. I guess they can work side by side.

First let me say Yeah Nymeria!!! I think the reason the scene with Nymeria went as it did is because: Early on either Ned or Cat (can't remember which) told Arya she needed to act like a lady, she replied simply "That's not me." So here is Arya asking Nymeria " Come with me, come home with me." Nymeria is (to quote my son) like "Naw, b***h, I'm nobodies pet." So Arya simply says, "That's not you." But you can bet Nymeria will never again be too far away if Arya needs her!

 

[Mr Orange]

to be honest i was a little underwhelmed by this episode. i didn't mind the first being a little slow as they set things up, but expected more action from this one. i thought some of the slow scenes could have been cut (in part or entirely) to give more action. considering we are now a quarter of the way through this season, i would have thought we'd be further along regarding the story.

i did enjoy arya's scenes as she moved from hardcore assassin to young stark girl with hotpie. good to see sam getting some stones too. and the last scene was great even if, as mentioned, above, the stealth of a fleet of 1000 ships was a little unrealistic. classic, brutal GOT.

and another thing, where is the Dothraki horde? and who's feeding them? surely they can't all squeeze onto dragonstone.

 

[ctg]

where is the Dothraki horde? and who's feeding them? surely they can't all squeeze onto dragonstone.

Exactly. There are things that don't make any sense and I think it's better to not think about them. Like for example how Stanis managed to teach thousand riders in that cramped rock? How the Iron Fleet managed to move all those horses across the narrow sea and rest of the equipment? Maybe the dragons provided some air transportation.

 

[Gnrevolution]

Yeah, it did feel a little underwhelming (apart from the last 10 minutes), lots of piece moving still and nothing actually happening. I am assuming that Euron has spies in the Yara / Theon camp that allowed him to know where and when the fleet was going to be, otherwise fleets that big would never be able to ambush one another. Not sure why everyone though Tyrion's plan was a good one, surely the use of the dothraki (who must be surviving on moss by now) and unsullied at Casterly Rock amounts to pretty much the same thing as using them on King's Landing. Also, if I remember correctly Dorne is not part of the Seven Kingdoms (hence 'Prince' Doran) so using them on King's Landing would still be considered an invading force. On the other side unless they have manufactured hundreds of the ballista those things will never take down a fast moving aerial target. Maybe they used the same supplier that provided Euron with his fleet?

On the plus side, loved the cameo from Hot Pie, the fact that people are finally starting to join up the dots (well, apart from nobody mentioning Bran!), Sam is going to save Jorah (or at least extend his time left) and Arya meeting Nymeria again. And, as mentioned, Varys showed he had the stones of the episode standing up to Dany, whilst GreyWorm showed he really doesn't have any (although it was my understanding that the loss of such 'equipment' impedes the sex drive of a person, although maybe I'm misinformed.

Anyway, get on with it! Only a few episodes left!

 

[ctg]

At the beginning of the voyage to the Slaver's Bay, the Iron fleet consists of 93 ships. Nearly half of them are lost on the way, but Victarion does not despair. The remaining fleet continues, capturing several cogs and galleys along the way. By the time the fleet reaches Meereen, it consists of 61 ships.

Iron Fleet

There are 8000 Unsullied. No they haven't been slaughtered en masse by the Sons of The Harpy. The best explanation is, once Dany negotiated the "truce" with the Sons of The Harpy, she became lax about her security.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there...-to-protect-Daenerys-in-Game-of-Thrones-S5-E9

IF quarter of Drogo's riders followed Deanery into the Dragonstone, there should be nearly 20 000 armed men in that rock, plus their horses and various pieces of wargear. All that in 61 ships?

 

[ctg]

hilst GreyWorm showed he really doesn't have any (although it was my understanding that the loss of such 'equipment' impedes the sex drive of a person, although maybe I'm misinformed.

Well, he might have lost his plums, but I don't think they did anything with his sausage. If I turn my brain on I start to wonder why he haven't grown a pair of tits like Bob in the Fight Club?

 

[Freydis]

Hiya,
First post here, hope it's ok that I jump straight into the discussion?!

to be honest i was a little underwhelmed by this episode. i didn't mind the first being a little slow as they set things up, but expected more action from this one. i thought some of the slow scenes could have been cut (in part or entirely) to give more action. considering we are now a quarter of the way through this season, i would have thought we'd be further along regarding the story.

i did enjoy arya's scenes as she moved from hardcore assassin to young stark girl with hotpie. good to see sam getting some stones too. and the last scene was great even if, as mentioned, above, the stealth of a fleet of 1000 ships was a little unrealistic. classic, brutal GOT.

and another thing, where is the Dothraki horde? and who's feeding them? surely they can't all squeeze onto dragonstone.

This is similar to what I felt. I struggle with the show these days. On one hand I am getting more excited because we're now into storylines I don't know in advance and plots I haven't already gone through in the books 15 years ago. But I also find that because it's not taken from the books I more and more question the plot lines and events that take place.
Whilst I found the first episode of this season good, I struggled with this episode to a larger degree.

One of the things that I had a hard time getting my head around was the geography and the timelines for things happening. It feels like people are moving awfully fast around the world and it is hard to find out how that ties in with what goes on in other places. Especially the transportation from Slaver's Bay to Dragonstone of a - supposedly - giant army seems difficult to grasp. Dragonstone is not exactly overflowing with bountiful fields, milk and honey, so I can't make sense of them landing there, only to keep people sitting around whilst they sail back to Dorne to pick up another army. They already must have passed Dorne when they were coming to Dragonstone, so perhaps it would have made sense to stop there instead of some abandoned rock (which only makes sense for nostalgic reasons).

The Euron Ninja-at-Sea attack just seemed a weak plot line where they could not come up with a better way of weakening Dany in her preparations to take the Iron Throne. Fair enough the ships had no motors, but a fleet that large, no way that can go unnoticed.

My frustrations with this episode sent me in search of some explanations around the internet, and I came across an article that covers the problems relating to the tv-show now being written entirely by writers instead of having the ASoIaF books to draw on. As this is my first post I am not allowed to link to it, but it covers how I feel. As mentioned at the start of my post I feel excited about a story line that I don't know already, but on the other hand I degree with the viewpoint in the article that it is becoming clearer and clearer that GRRM is an excellent writer and that a hastily written tv-show cannae compete with a well written and thought out book

 

[svalbard]

I thought it was a good episode. Nothing slow about it all. The action scenes at the end were good, but I absolutley love the politics and word play in GOT and this episode delivered again in the scenes with Dany and Varys and then with Ollenna.

Has Jon made a mistake in leaving Sansa in charge. Will she betray him? I hope not.

So Sandsnakes. You will not be missed.

A couple of other points of interest.

I enjoyed the more nuanced view of Randyll Tarly in this episode compared to his portrayal last season. Good scene with Jaime.

Is Dany now the Prince of Phrophesy.

Come on Sam. Cure Jorah. I forgot the connection of Sam being with Lord Mormont at his death.

 

[Ursa major]

One of the things that I had a hard time getting my head around was the geography and the timelines for things happening.

The books can get away with this sort of thing, as single chapters can often cover quite long periods of time (although they don't always do so). The expectation in a TV show is that, unless there's a caption saying "48 hours earlier" (or some sort of hint that a flashback is being shown), there is at least some sort of temporal relationship between the scenes and that, specifically, they're not whole weeks or months separated in time.

 

[pete997]

here is a question for you.

How did you know? I thought she would have stayed at the Wall, thinking about how badly she can ef up King of the North, if she meddles in the business. The Red Woman is only lucky the Lord of Light heard her prayers and she should be grateful for that rather than running South to Dragonstone.

The whole invoking the prophesy felt so deliberately placed that I thought for a moment she's back in the throne business. It would have been proper to see Stanis' ghost dwelling at the background; chained to her until the end of days. In her shoes I would have warned Deanery's about staying in the Dragonstone as that island is far easier to siege than King's Landing.

With the Iron Fleet in bits I don't think they can muster enough of men to hold the original plan. Queen Cercei got unbelievably lucky and whole fleet action felt like a giant conspiracy. Would it even be possibly to sail into the heart of the fleet "of biggest and the best ships" without alerting everyone? I mean these men has sailed and fought side by side for a long time, and it's in everyone's mind that two half are now enemies.

When those fire bolts started raining in, the raiders were already within the fleet. As if someone had let it happe and that seems impossible. And I know they don't have radars, but it's pretty difficult to get into a big blob without clashing with the outer perimeter first. You have to have submarines to be able to do that without getting a crash, but those are in a very limited supply at that world.

I believe they exist somewhere and possibly resemble diving balls/bells rather than the traditional shapes. Still I guess Dornish had it coming for the past deeds. Those three sisters didn't last long in the hands of raiders. Although I believe that Greyjoy marauder mortally wounded at femoral artery. He just was too pissed to realise how dead he were when he grabbed Yara and forced Theon to bail over the board.

To be honest it was a wise move from his behalf even though it branded him as a coward. Speaking of those things I believe Varys showed of possessing a great pair of balls to being able to confront the Queen of Dragon's in the way he did. He even smiled and admitted that roasting in the dragon fire, would be the only way he would depart from the world.

I hope Karma wasn't listening as I cannot imagine any more horrifying way to die. It would be horribly painful. More so than what Mormont suffered in Samwell's hands. A flask of rum isn't a proper painkiller. Especially not when half of it has gone into the doctor already. But as always the knight without the queen or the country took it without even losing his consciousness.

Why Sam didn't offer him the milk of poppy?

I agree. Daenerys will not stick to the original plan. Without the Iron Fleet, she can't. But that loss opens up another opportunity. Cersae will see an opportunity to punish the Tyrells by sending out her army. Daenerys will avoid injury to people but an army is fair game.

 

[Judderman]

I think the main flaw compared to early seasons is that the conversations between characters are not really dramatic, funny or particularly interesting. The dialogue isn't great. It is more functional with each conversation having some plot point. As George didn't write the conversations that is surely why.

I agree on the missing army in the boats being a problem, and also the craziness of none watching out for the rival Greyjoy navy. Are the Tyrells and Martells now supposed to be mostly wiped out after they were taken out on other vessels?

The two Dornish sisters was an easy character removal as they didn't offer much. They even made sure the prettiest sister was left alive.

The Ballista is probably the same one from the Hobbit movies.

The scenes with Sam and Jorah were really well done. Quite revolting.

 

[Judderman]

Is Emilia's acting just poor or is Dany meant to hide all emotions?

 

[ctg]

But I also find that because it's not taken from the books I more and more question the plot lines and events that take place.

It feels to me that because they're not adding fluff around the dialogue and the events, everything we see and hear is deliberate. The pacing is fast moving and there is no time for anything extra. Everything has to move forward and nothing can stay waiting.

Has Jon made a mistake in leaving Sansa in charge. Will she betray him? I hope not.

I think it's the Littlefinger, who is going to move forward and do something unspeakable. And at the end result Jon is forced to take his head.

Is Emilia's acting just poor or is Dany meant to hide all emotions?

I think she's trying to act like a proper queen, showing outside only restricted emotions. I have completely forgotten, but what happened to her Second Son lover?

 

[Koopa]

@posters above, I agree with your sentiments which is why i've mostly given up on a sense of realism on certain things. Which is a shame really since that is what to a certain extent the series has been about. A more realistic approach to a fantasy world. Still good fun to watch and above all I want to know the end of this story know. I didn't like hearing next season was delayed to 2019. Another forced wait. I understand the reasons behind it, but that doesn't mean I fully like it. Them last 5 episodes better be good.

@Emilia, not the best actress in the world, but not sure what emotions she is asked to show. At the end of the day she does manage to give me the same feeling Dany of the books give me. That of a megalomaniac.

 

[Dave]

I think the main flaw compared to early seasons is that the conversations between characters are not really dramatic, funny or particularly interesting. The dialogue isn't great. It is more functional with each conversation having some plot point. As George didn't write the conversations that is surely why.

I think I agree with this, and the schedule of writing for TV is probably as much to blame as the ability of the writers themselves, so surely the delay to the final episodes is a good things as it may give them more time to improve the script and before filming?