What *I* would have done differently?

[rai]

I like characters I can relate to, and when a character behaves in a normal manner. I mean do things that are logical (rather than do things that drive the authors agenda).

I am asking what you would do differently if you were a character (not asking if you were the author)

I am going by the HBO series (season one) because I read the books 15 years ago but I think they are quite similar.

I'm not second guessing the great author, but with Ned Stark there were so many outs that *I* would have taken.

Can you can give any example of poor choice by a character with an outcome that would have been different?

It seems like GRRM had it in his mind for Ned to be killed and that's that. I like how Joffrey did the deed, but it was Ned's actions leading up to that I question as not logical.

example of logical action: Jamie has to kill Bran, he could have stabbed him instead of throwing him out the window but either way killing him would be the logical action. There was no other option, he thought the boy would die so he decided to throw him out the window to appear like an accident. Great logic poor outcome (not his fault).

But with Ned he is attacked by Jamie and his bodyguards are killed in cold blood. But yet he continues to be the Hand and he in fact tells Cercie he know about her and Jamie (what?) he did what?

I would have been on the first horse out of town.

Logically (to me) him Ned staying on as the Hand (not leaving immediately) him confronting Cerci and him not agreeing to some type of Coup d'etat after Robert's death any one of which is more logical than confronting King Joffrey with a last will of Robert which Ned knew would not be acceptable.

Am I being too hard on Ned?

Another questionable decision is Catelyn Stark capturing Tyrion while her families were still trapped in Kings Landing. I am like wtf is she thinking? This ends well how? Tyrion is a small chip to bargain with against her husband Ned, the head of the family and her two daughters. Wouldn't it make more sense to get her whole family safely out of Kings Landing *before* she makes any bold moves?

 

[The Imp]

Ned's biggest mistake was trusting Littlefinger, but they would be no series if Ned didn't die, so it's really a moot questionable decisions

Robb screwing up his betrothement by getting married.

Jon not listening to Melisandre

Catelyn not listening to her "gut" and going to The Red Wedding

I'll stop there for now

 

[Needle]

I have to agree with Imp on one of these: The biggest what where you thinking or "I" would never have done, was Robb Stark breaking his betrothment as well as his word and vow, by marrying another. Yes he was young and vulnerable in many ways, but this is Robb Stark here! Born, breed, and raised for lordship by arguably the most honest and noble man in the Seven Kingdoms! I would never have done it!

 

[Judderman]

Although he had his reasons I think Tyrion's decision to bring a prostitute to be his girlfriend and live in Kings Landing was a significant mistake for a clever chap. I would like to think I could have kept that relationship professional even if I wasn't having success romantically elsewhere. He may not have ended up killing his father and eventually getting to Dany. Well maybe his choice worked out for the best so far.

If I was Viserys I probably wouldn't have got drunk amongst a load of dangerous looking Dothraki. Viserys could have survived for longer. But I can see it would have been a big problem for him if Dany had taken the lead while he still lived.

 

[Mister_Oy]

As far as I remember - in the books - Tyrion has seen Dany - but hasn't actually met her.

 

[Null_Zone]

Jump 10 years into the war as rumoured, no more writing yourself into a corner trying to create a starting point but feeling the need for the cheap shock of killing characters.

 

[The Imp]

I think you can criticize Martin about a lot of decisions he made and things he did, but I don't think he killed off anyone for cheap shocks.

 

[Freydis]

Although he had his reasons I think Tyrion's decision to bring a prostitute to be his girlfriend and live in Kings Landing was a significant mistake for a clever chap. I would like to think I could have kept that relationship professional even if I wasn't having success romantically elsewhere. He may not have ended up killing his father and eventually getting to Dany. Well maybe his choice worked out for the best so far.

I always did wonder about this one. Given his previous experience of falling in love with a 'prostitute' I always wondered if his choice to bring Shae to Kings Landing was some sort of late rebellion on his part or if it was merely to show his development into a more cynical character. The story is set up so that he would have left Kings Landing whether Shae had been part of his life or not, but whether he would have killed his dad is more doubtful.
Either way, I always thought he should have been smarter... but if he genuinely was in love, then a poor decision like that is less of a surprise.

 

[Narkalui]

If I'd been Rob I'd have come straight back to Riverrun after Oxcross and smushed Tywin's army piece by piece in the battle of the fords.

Tywin devided his army into 11 smaller forces. What an utterly bananas decision!

I'm going to start a new topic soon on why I believe Tywin Lannister to have been a terrible general.

 

[BAYLOR]

Had been Oberyin Martell , I would kept my head and have killed Gregor Cleghan the second he hit the ground.

 

[Narkalui]

I wonder what you all think of this:

If Robb Stark had not married Jeyne Westerling would the Red Wedding still have happened?

 

[Judderman]

The Freys probably wouldn't have had so many Starks at ease in their castle otherwise would they? Though perhaps there could have been another reason for a feast. They could have instead just betrayed on the battlefield but it may not have been as effective.

 

[Narkalui]

I think that once they realised Robb was coming back to boot the Iron Born out of the North they would have known he'd need their bridge.

Once there I think it more likely that they would have taken him into custody rather than murder him.

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

I wonder what you all think of this:

If Robb Stark had not married Jeyne Westerling would the Red Wedding still have happened?

No, it wouldn't have. There is a simple reason for that. Walder Frey's blood is about to be the Queen of North and Riverlands. His progeny shall rule half of the Seven Kingdoms. There is nothing Tywin can offer that can compete with that.

 

[Narkalui]

Except being on the winning side. If you remember in Clash of Kings the Freys at Harrenhal are whining that all is lost, and Roose Bolton sent Harrion Karstark, Robett Glover et al off to Duskendale BEFORE they heard about Robb's marriage...

 

[Anushka Mokosh]

Roose was in on the whole Red Wedding scheme from day one. That is why he sent those to Duskendale. Without Walder Frey being in on it, Roose would never agree to it because even if he did betray Robb and crippled him in that way, Robb would still be in a good enough position to, at the very least, bargain with Tywin and Roose would have nothing to gain.

And regarding the timeline, there are some indications that Tywin planned the entire Robb-Jayne affair with Jayne's mother. Therefore, Roose might have been planning with Tywin since then, but had that scheme failed, Roose would have no reason to follow Tywin's plan.

And even if Red Wedding does not happen, Purple Wedding and all that comes with it likely still happens.

 

[BAYLOR]

If he had treated Cersei with respect and love form the very beginning. A lot of unpleasant things might not have transpired. As a King Robert stunk to high heaven., he should take the job of far more responsibly then he did instead delegating to the likes of scumbags like Littlefingers ad Varys.

 

[Narkalui]

I think the idea that if Robert had been a more responsible ruler and husband is very interesting. If he'd only given Cersei the motivation to give him true born children then things would have been so very different. Especially if they were all "chips off the old block" in terms of their personality:

Before I begin I'm choosing to assume Lysa still poisons Jon Arryn but because Jon was never investigating Cersei and Jaime, Lysa never tries to implicate them as patsies and Jon's death looks innocent to everyone.

Joffrey actually gets on well with the Stark kids, Bran still falls from the tower because Jaime and Cersei are still banging (except Cersei is not letting Jaime put bastards in her belly), but no knife man is sent for Bran. Joff doesn't humiliate Arya and Mycah, he just has fun with them and Nymeria never attacks and isn't driven away, Lady isn't put down.

Cat never comes to Kingslanding and never arrests Tyrion, Jaime never attacks Ned and his men.

Now, the big question: Robert, in this scenario is a responsible husband and ruler, but when he's having a break from all of that (i.e. when hunting), is he still a boozer? I'm guessing yes and the pig still does for him.

So Joffrey being an honourable young lad honours his father's will and Ned remains as regent and Hand.

I'm not going back and changing anything, but I just realised a bit of a hole in all this: Stannis would still be in Kingslanding...

 

[Judderman]

.. from the tower because Jaime and Cersei are still banging (except Cersei is not letting Jaime put bastards in her belly), but no knife man is sent for Bran. Joff doesn't humiliate Arya and Mycah, he just has fun with them and Nymeria never attacks and isn't driven away, Lady isn't put down....
So Joffrey being an honourable young lad honours his father's will and Ned remains as regent and Hand.

Though Cersei would have a very different son if he was Robert's.

 

[Narkalui]

Exactly! It would change everything...