Publishers demanding audio rights

[The Big Peat]

So as I went down to the Reddit woods today, I saw a few bits and pieces about authors leaving publishers due to the authors wanting to keep the audio rights and the publishers making blanket refusals to do so.

Michael J Sullivan talks about him leaving Del Rey

Mitchell Hogan leaving Harper Voyager

I'm trying to work out whether I think the publishers are crazy or not. On the one hand, they're definitely losing talent over this, and I suspect they'll lose more.

On the other hand, there's always tons of talent throwing themselves at them. There's not tons of money. Getting those audio rights is a big deal and I can see why they might think "Why am I doing all of this to promote you if I get less from you than I do from the other guy?" But then... why not just reduce the advance? Sullivan will make money on his next book. Del Rey have just said no to money because they haven't got enough.

Is this really all about control?

Anyway, was curious to see what people thought. Interesting Times for us all.

 

[Cathbad]

Everything I see convinces me, over and over, my decision not to go the trad route was a just and correct one.

 

[Dan Jones]

Authors are wising up to the ways of publishers these days, thanks to better access to resources, the ability to vet contracts, and initiatives such as the SoA's CREATE scheme, which is empowering authors and making them more aware of their rights.

This might be an example of that shift in mentality, and the publishers pushing back against that. It's a bit like consumer empowerment. A few years ago, the big energy companies could carry on operating along the business model whereby they would retain the vast majority of customers, and therefore embed complacency. As soon as the mainstream consumer community became aware you could switch supplier, and quite easily, things changed. It might be the same here, though we're some way off that yet. Big publishing houses have things their own way for so long in terms of creative control, marketing, sales (and despite the ebook revolution, paperback is still king according to the Bookseller) and overall business control, that they're bound to react angrily when things shift away.

Of course, big publishers will always have people hurling themselves at their altar, but most of them live or die by their big, marquee names, so if this becomes A Thing, then things could change in a more wholesale manner.

If we do get there it might be a case of, as you say, giving bigger advances for the audio rights, or buying those lucrative rights some other way. Authors are a lot wiser to these things, which can only be good. The talent is where it's at, ultimately, and for too long the talent has been happy just to tag along and be exploited just for the vanity kudos of having ones book in print.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Is this really all about control?

It's about more than just audio rights, and now about managing intellectual property.

When I was researching agents and publishers last year, I found that publishers were increasing looking to control as many rights as possible, and for as long as possible.

So there's also the possibility that a new author will need to sign away their copyright for the rest of the copyright period (ie, the rest of their lives plus 70 years for the UK). Additionally, publishers can demand audio as well as TV/film rights - with the latter, the author might not get a penny from those rights, because they are already considered sold to the publisher.

On top of that, those supposed 8% royalties on paperbacks gets slashed if your book is discounted for sale - meaning that the author might in actual fact receive only around 20p per paperback sold, with everyone else (publishers and distributors) sharing the rest of the income.

There's also the problem that publishers are no longer able to foster writing careers - so even if your debut novel is signed, it must work as a standalone, and if it doesn't sell enough you may not be contracted to finish books 2 or 3 in the trilogy you planned.

Agents are struggling, too, because if they refuse to submit to publishers who offer poor terms then there are always other agents who will.

On the plus side, even with little or no marketing, any big publisher will easily sell more copies of your book than you ever will in the same period. Which could be very useful if looking to establish your name as a writer.

What established authors and agents really need to do is band together - get organised - and refuse to sign up to such terms, or allow publishers to force them on debut authors. IMO this is the only way the industry can be changed to protect author interests. Forcing publishers to have to work from slush piles would soon change their mind on the issue. Unfortunately, I doubt enough agencies and authors are going to do this, whether through choice or otherwise.

2c.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Michael J Sullivan self-publishes and makes more money from it (a lot more) than he does the traditional route. He only uses the traditional route to get into book stores etc For him walking away isn't a difficult choice.

 

[EJDeBrun]

This is why you need to find a good agent if you want to go traditional. And publishers know that. And the author still has to grant approval (at least the US). And they collect a percentage based on if the rights actually become a product.

 

[ratsy]

If anyone is interested in learning more of Michael J Sullivan, he was on my friends over at Keystroke Medium's show today!

 

[AlexH]

It's the same in the music industry now too - record labels trying to claim as much as possible e.g. merchandise and ticket sales on top of the recorded music.

If book publishers are trying to gain extra rights from existing contracts, then that's not on. If they're upfront about it and signing a new contract, fair enough.

 

[Dennis E. Taylor]

When my agent shopped around WAL(WAB), he got no bites from trad-publishers, just one offer from Audible. We put off signing the Audible deal because, as Ethan said, publishers are loathe to take only partial publishing rights. Eventually, though, we went with self-pub for e-book and Createspace, and signed the Audible contract.

And it went gangbusters.

Books 2 & 3 have gone as well or better. Audible sales equal or exceed e-book and paperback sales. I'm missing revenue from brick-and-mortar sales, but honestly I don't think those are a major factor in authors' revenue streams these days.

When I finished Singularity Trap, we shopped it around and actually got an offer from a Big 5 publisher. And turned it down, in the end. The publisher insisted on all rights, and the numbers just didn't make sense. I could not see how the publisher could sell enough more books to make up for the smaller royalty percentages. And I see no reason to take less money for the privilege of being signed by a big publisher.

So ST will be going out under the hybrid model as well.

I don't know exactly when it came about, but audio sales now seem to equal or exceed e-book sales in many cases. And between e-book and audio sales, the production costs are miniscule compared to what's involved in producing ink-and-paper versions. So it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the trad-publishers are trying to control audio sales for their properties.

 

[millymollymo]

It's about more than just audio rights, and now about managing intellectual property.


On the plus side, even with little or no marketing, any big publisher will easily sell more copies of your book than you ever will in the same period. Which could be very useful if looking to establish your name as a writer.

What point is there of selling a hundreds of books and only seeing >12p a book? If you value READERSHIP your arguement makes sense, but not sales. Your book will be read more via a trad than self pub in most senarios.

Going back to topic. This has been a growing issue for a while now.
Publishers are out to make money, as others have said. That's any company's first objective.
When you sign keep that in mind. Wise up before you sign up. It's your responsiblity.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I refused a contract on Waters that wanted a share of my film rights. And I consistently make more out of Inish than all the others because I choose its promo and nurse it along.

Honestly I have 3 models these days:

Agent interest with possible deal

Then either! Trad published and funding to write the book (since I can't get funding to self published) or self published.

I need revenue to keep writing. It is that stark, my time is so limited at the moment. So I will always go for the model that pays best and work hard to retain the rights that will bring me income.

 

[ralphkern]

Audio rights can be worth more than print or E. Far more.

The big three audio houses are really stepping up their game. They also add advantage in that they can attract the big-name narrators - and audiophiles are drawn as much by them as they are by an author.

I now write as much with audio in mind as I do with print. (For example, dialogue tags are best structured more towards incorperating action and I watch those 'invisible' words a lot more which suddenly seem to stand out in audio)

 

[Vertigo]

One thing I would say in defence of the publishers here is that if, and I know it's a whopping big IF, if the publisher spends a load of money promoting a book and then subsequently someone else publishes the audio edition, that someone else will benefit from all that unpaid for promotion. Of course if the publisher does little or nothing to promote the book in the first place then they haven't a leg to stand on in my opinion.

 

[ralphkern]

One thing I would say in defence of the publishers here is that if, and I know it's a whopping big IF, if the publisher spends a load of money promoting a book and then subsequently someone else publishes the audio edition, that someone else will benefit from all that unpaid for promotion. Of course if the publisher does little or nothing to promote the book in the first place then they haven't a leg to stand on in my opinion.

And vice versa.

 

[Vertigo]

And vice versa.

By that do you mean if the audio publisher does a load of promotion then the printed publisher gains? If yes than I absolutely agree and I don't think there's an easy simple solution to the problem.

 

[Boneman]

Wow, the things you learn, every day! This looks like a job for... The Society of Authors. Or the American caped equivalent. As more publishers shoot themselves in the foot over this, sense will return, won't it? Give the writer a good deal on payment of Audiorights and everyone is happy, no? Neither side is being greedy and everyone benefits, yes? What sort of figures are offered by publishers for the audiorights? Is it the same 8%, along with paperbacks etc?

 

[ralphkern]

Depends who you go with and is open for negotiation. Lots of factors in there, as with a regular publishing contract.

 

[Dan Jones]

Give the writer a good deal on payment of Audiorights and everyone is happy, no? Neither side is being greedy and everyone benefits, yes?

That sounds dangerously like common sense to me. As I said above, it may yet come to pass that once the (big) publishers have stopped throwing toys out of the pram, they will re-evaluate the landscape and decide the best course of action is to keep keep both parties happy. It's not brain surgery, or even osteopathy

I can only speak about my own experiences. The contract I signed with Snowbooks was vetted by the Society of Authors, who said that the contract was very fair, and they were impressed with how the rights were shared out. For any rights or subsidiary uses of my book that come after publication (ie TV, audio rights, quotations, translation etc), I get a cut of that deal, ranging anywhere from 50-85%. Thus, it's in both my and Snowbooks' interests to sell those rights, which to me makes sense and creates a more collaborative relationship. I think it helps that Snowbooks is an indie, though - I don't suppose that sort of deal would be on offer with many of the big publishers, except perhaps with their marquee names.

 

[Dennis E. Taylor]

Wow, the things you learn, every day! This looks like a job for... The Society of Authors. Or the American caped equivalent. As more publishers shoot themselves in the foot over this, sense will return, won't it? Give the writer a good deal on payment of Audiorights and everyone is happy, no? Neither side is being greedy and everyone benefits, yes? What sort of figures are offered by publishers for the audiorights? Is it the same 8%, along with paperbacks etc?

15% from Audible

 

[Jo Zebedee]

I can only speak about my own experiences. The contract I signed with Snowbooks was vetted by the Society of Authors, who said that the contract was very fair, and they were impressed with how the rights were shared out. For any rights or subsidiary uses of my book that come after publication (ie TV, audio rights, quotations, translation etc), I get a cut of that deal, ranging anywhere from 50-85%. Thus, it's in both my and Snowbooks' interests to sell those rights, which to me makes sense and creates a more collaborative relationship. I think it helps that Snowbooks is an indie, though - I don't suppose that sort of deal would be on offer with many of the big publishers, except perhaps with their marquee names.

I would not have signed that - I hold onto my subsidary rights unless there is payment involved.... It means that even with a publisher I can still chase additional outcomes.

But this is all very new and there is no way to know what is the right way forwards.