Questions about a Chosen One/Magical School twist

[The Big Peat]

I had the seed of a story idea while wandering the mean streets and want to run it past you people for viability/feel out a few technical questions I have about it.

The idea goes like this:


Once upon a time, there was a young lad called Peasant O'Hick, who lived in the isolated mountain village of Notopia. He dreams of heroism and adventuring, but he is resigned to a life of rural tedium.

Then one day, the great mage Hoods Staffson comes by! No one knows why, but there's three youngsters with him. Notopia is all agog except young O'Hick, who's doing the busy work.

While he's doing busy work, a girl falls in the fast moving river. O'Hick dives in and somehow rescues her and the great Staffson pronounces that O'Hick was using magic to survive, and that he needs to come with Staffson to Abracadabra Academy. Yay! Adventure.

O'Hick travels with Staffson and the three kids (one friend, one enemy, one unobtainable hottie) and receives his first magic lessons. Staffson makes magic seem grim, grey and great at the same time.

Just before they reach AA, when O'Hick is alone he bumps into Mysteria McCool, a wandering herbwoman who used to pass through Notopia, who tells him she's a spy, that AA is more evil than Sauron kicking kittens, and she needs him to infiltrate AA as a spy to bring out its destruction.

That's the set up. It then (probably) turns into a Harry Potter/The Night Manager mash up in which he has fun adventures while exploring Good and Evil, Trust and Betrayal, The Price of One Soul vs Many and of course FWIENDSHIP!

Now, questions.

1) As you can see, the idea at present is very much about following the whole Chosen One trope pretty closely until the twist of he's going to Evil School and must infiltrate them. Do I need to vary the trope up a bit more in the beginning, or do you think its justified as a build up to the twist?

2) At what point do you have the twist? As things stand, I'm going for it early, but is that wise? Do I do it early as its the true concept or the book, or do I need to settle into AA and foreshadow the fact its a bad place more? Do you put the twist onto the blurb, and if so, how much does that affect how its done when the reader is expecting something?

3) Did you have the "Eagles Ringbombing Mordor" moment when I mentioned Mysteria? Would I need to explain why the Magic Spies haven't just beaten the crap out of AA, or am I overthinking that? Does the premise of a Magical Spy picking some kid they've met a few times before to be their spy in AA hold up, or am I going to need to beef that up? In short, are there any major holes about the twist I'm not considering?

4) Are they any tropes about the whole Magical School/Chosen one thing that you think are particularly ripe for subversion/relevant to where this plot is going so far?

5) Anything else, such as "This is an awful idea, please atone for making me read it" or "This is an awesome idea, please hurry up and write it"

 

[DelActivisto]

It actually sounds pretty good. I am going to have to question the name Peasant O'hick, however. And Notopia. And AA. *cough* Unless you are just joking. I think you were, but I'm trying to be sensitive, because I have a knack for offending people.

1. I think sending him to evil school is a great idea. Personally, I would do it early on, as soon as possible, lest you lose the reader at, "Ah crap, another Harry Potter yerawizard knockoff," and chucks the book through the window, after which they'll retrieve it and also call Lowes, because that was a really cheap window and it broke.

2. Oh, I already answered that. I'm really bad a questionnaires. "How many vegetables... oh, donuts, we're talking about donuts. Right." I think you could take that either way. You could have him go to AA for a while, and begin realizing stuff is real fishy. (That's a literary term. Fishy.) He asks a few questions, and someone from "evil" school recruits him. And I think your blurb could be phrase fairly subtle, like "Peasant Ohick goes to AA, whereupon he starts using magic but some of the events just don't add up, such as when the headmaster orders a firing squad on twenty seemingly normal students while cackling madly."

3. Yeah, I think you're onto something there. Maybe there needs to be a reason that they recruit him. He could have some special abilities in some way, for instance, the ability to resist being killed by the most toxic mushrooms. Some reason they would do that. In real life, the CIA doesn't usually just randomly recruit someone because they made a youtube video with their new karate skills. Or you could have them send him to AA as a double agent (double student?).

4. Well, I would avoid Chosen One altogether if you can. It's just been done so many times. I think it's still possible to pull it off, but at this point in the fantasy genre's history, it almost always feels like a cop out.

5. I think it sounds good. Just needs to be thought about and examined like any other story idea.

 

[Cottencandytrill]

The protagonist infiltrating a "evil" magical school reminds me of one of the Arks in the anime show Magi.

 

[HareBrain]

I'm sure you were joking, but I'm not: please keep the names exactly the same!

It does sound pretty good, though I think might be more to do with the manner in which you've related it than the idea itself (which is serviceable rather than world-shattering), meaning we come back to the oft-repeated maxim that it's all in the execution. I have no idea what the answers to your queries are, but I imagine you'd find them yourself if you started it. So start it. And try to keep some of the humour at least.

 

[Ihe]

I second @HareBrain. I'll read this if you keep those names .

About the twist, I would have a chance meeting on the road with the spy, but I would only foreshadow. Having a spy reveal her identity and purpose to a lowly kid who she knows nothing about doesn't make sense. She needs to test him. Later, once he's in the school and has proven himself to be a good person amongst the bad, only then would the spy enclave (who are already infiltrated) would try to induct him into their ranks.

I also agree being the Chosen One, specially in a magic school, is just too similar to Harry Potter. But your MC might still be in a unique position in other non-magical ways (maybe he's burlier because of the farm work, compared to the more fragile wizard bookworms in the academy, which in turn makes him ideal for certain "spy" tasks, and so is made to be a physical grunt type of "spy-assistant". Maybe the spies are very constrained because any use of magic can be detected within school grounds by the academy staff, meaning the spies have their hands tied most of the times to operate within academy grounds). Something along those lines could go somewhere, giving spies and MC a big handicap (having to use non-magic means to beat evil wizards at their own game).

Just brainstorming.

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

What exactly us unobtainable hottie's purpose, other than hotness? Is he/she friend or foe?

 

[The Big Peat]

I did consider asking whether people would be more or less likely to read it if I kept the naming theme as is

What exactly us unobtainable hottie's purpose, other than hotness? Is he/she friend or foe?

She's here because that's how its done damnit! I suppose if I was to follow the Le Carre side of the DNA, she'd be here so the PC could show his damaged loneliness by falling for her damaged loneliness, before making the great mistake that sends the plot into a tailspin over her, before finally changing the plans at the last moment because of her to show he still has his humanity.

What I'm actually going to do with her... I don't know. Right now she is a rogue element awaiting her moment in the plot. But then I've only got as far as the set-up on this.

The protagonist infiltrating a "evil" magical school reminds me of one of the Arks in the anime show Magi.

Its slightly reassuring to know someone else has done it.

Or you could have them send him to AA as a double agent (double student?).

That is indeed the plan, sorry if it was unclear. All the set up is there to establish him as a double agent in Evil Magic School - and indeed, that's why they're interested in him. He's someone they can trust who's got an in to somewhere they can't otherwise get an in. Which probably means...

I second @HareBrain. I'll read this if you keep those names .

About the twist, I would have a chance meeting on the road with the spy, but I would only foreshadow. Having a spy reveal her identity and purpose to a lowly kid who she knows nothing about doesn't make sense. She needs to test him. Later, once he's in the school and has proven himself to be a good person amongst the bad, only then would the spy enclave (who are already infiltrated) would try to induct him into their ranks.

Either I go with this, or I go with her knowing him better.

Thing is, if they can examine his actions at AA, why do they need a spy there? Unless you were just saying they've already got a spy there? Or did by already infiltrated you mean the Evil people have Spies infiltrated?

I also agree being the Chosen One, specially in a magic school, is just too similar to Harry Potter. But your MC might still be in a unique position in other non-magical ways (maybe he's burlier because of the farm work, compared to the more fragile wizard bookworms in the academy, which in turn makes him ideal for certain "spy" tasks, and so is made to be a physical grunt type of "spy-assistant". Maybe the spies are very constrained because any use of magic can be detected within school grounds by the academy staff, meaning the spies have their hands tied most of the times to operate within academy grounds). Something along those lines could go somewhere, giving spies and MC a big handicap (having to use non-magic means to beat evil wizards at their own game).

Just brainstorming.

I'll probably drop the Chosen One bit. I liked the idea of someone following a prophecy and having it blow up in their face, and I find the standard Chosen One introduction to work well here, but I keep the story simpler and more focused on the core conceit by dropping any greater prophecy.

I was aiming more for the sort of spying that mainly revolves around being near information with no one suspecting you, but I think you're onto something with his physique making him different and useful and the idea of them being unable to use magic in the grounds.


I am debating how useful it is to play up the echoes of other Magic Schools. It makes sense to me in terms of providing some familiarity/increasing what shock value there is in a Magic School that teaches human sacrifice, but equally it does put a lot of stress on the execution to keep the idea interesting long enough. But then... Magic School's Magic School. I'm probably aiming at people who like Magic School anyway.

 

[DelActivisto]

I am debating how useful it is to play up the echoes of other Magic Schools. It makes sense to me in terms of providing some familiarity/increasing what shock value there is in a Magic School that teaches human sacrifice, but equally it does put a lot of stress on the execution to keep the idea interesting long enough. But then... Magic School's Magic School. I'm probably aiming at people who like Magic School anyway.

I think that's good. A lot of stories seem to have a magic school. In the Wheel of Time series, the school also serves as the main world polity, and is quite wealthy and runs a good deal of the show in various countries. Real world schools can also be quite political and influential, such as Duke, Yale, etc. In HP, Hogwarts' political prowess wasn't explored in depth, but I'm sure it was there.

 

[Phyrebrat]

I've detected your Achilles Heel. Alghough I'm renaming yours as your Achilles' Contradiction; coming up with fantastic names for things which you are then unable to use, à la Gumshoe Paladin.

My horribly inexpert opinions on such things are:

1) As you can see, the idea at present is very much about following the whole Chosen One trope pretty closely until the twist of he's going to Evil School and must infiltrate them. Do I need to vary the trope up a bit more in the beginning, or do you think its justified as a build up to the twist?

It's fine if you keep it interesting, isn't it? I mean, the tropiness isn't a cliché if you've messed with it.

2) At what point do you have the twist? As things stand, I'm going for it early, but is that wise? Do I do it early as its the true concept or the book, or do I need to settle into AA and foreshadow the fact its a bad place more? Do you put the twist onto the blurb, and if so, how much does that affect how its done when the reader is expecting something?

I think introducing the weird and uncanny piece by piece would be far more compelling. Especially if you go back to the trope. A lot of readers might pick it up because they like that trope, so when it starts to get a bit dark, they'll be really engaged because of the tension between their expectations and what is going on. It's like playing with the haunted house trope, which is my favourite starting point for any book I'm reading. I'm presold because I love that trope, so when it's messed with I'm even more hooked. House of Leaves did this to me, and Toby has mentioned (and recommended) The House Next Door which is another story that plays with the haunted house trope. Also, Robert Marasco's Burnt Offerings; which I enjoyed even though I think the prose is horrendous.

3) Did you have the "Eagles Ringbombing Mordor" moment when I mentioned Mysteria? Would I need to explain why the Magic Spies haven't just beaten the crap out of AA, or am I overthinking that? Does the premise of a Magical Spy picking some kid they've met a few times before to be their spy in AA hold up, or am I going to need to beef that up? In short, are there any major holes about the twist I'm not considering?

I tend to leave those kind of worries aside till I get to them - are you a hybrid writer or pure planner? I'd suggest her introduction would work itself out as you write.

4) Are they any tropes about the whole Magical School/Chosen one thing that you think are particularly ripe for subversion/relevant to where this plot is going so far?

I'd like to see the protagonist end up turning to the dark side, and setting up more evil academies because of some kind of misinterpretation or fatigue with people telling him what to do. Or perhaps it's age-relevant in that if he doesn't do it by a certain age, it has the opposite effect etc.

5) Anything else, such as "This is an awful idea, please atone for making me read it" or "This is an awesome idea, please hurry up and write it"

From the comments above you seem to have your answer. I know I'm repeating myself here, but I'd make it noir AF if I had your skills in that area!

pH

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'm a big fan of challenging reader expectations. Helps keeps them on their toes.

 

[Dave]

As long as the headmage of AA isn't actually O'Hick's real father.

What exactly us unobtainable hottie's purpose, other than hotness? Is he/she friend or foe?

I think it's too much of a coincidence that she happened to meet him on the road, and forward planning is usually the prerogative of evil, not the accidental fatedness that comes with being the chosen one. So, definitely not someone to trust.

 

[The Storyteller]

Sounds interesting, and like it could be a lot of fun. I would agree to have the twists early, otherwise I would think it was just another cliche and would put it down. Also, varying up the trope just enough to suggest something is different here might help keep attention until the twists take place.

On the note of the prophecy, it might be interesting if the prophecy is actually that he is the chosen one for the 'bad guys' (destined to destroy the world, rather than save it), and/or, it is actually a false prophecy circulated by the spies in order to get the MC into the evil school for the purpose of spy work, and it turns out he's just a regular joe.

That may not be the direction you're going, but it could be an interesting take on the 'chosen one' trope, and could be funny to discover the 'oh so special chosen one' is actually just a normal dude!

 

[Amelia Faulkner]

I think it's too much of a coincidence that she happened to meet him on the road, and forward planning is usually the prerogative of evil, not the accidental fatedness that comes with being the chosen one. So, definitely not someone to trust.

That's what I like to hear!

 

[The Big Peat]

I think that's good. A lot of stories seem to have a magic school. In the Wheel of Time series, the school also serves as the main world polity, and is quite wealthy and runs a good deal of the show in various countries. Real world schools can also be quite political and influential, such as Duke, Yale, etc. In HP, Hogwarts' political prowess wasn't explored in depth, but I'm sure it was there.

I mean, really, Hogwarts' position as sole educational provider should have given it a ton of power. Those teachers are making and breaking careers. Not to mention they're deciding what spin to give to pretty much all the wizarding history these kids are getting. Its nut.

I've detected your Achilles Heel. Alghough I'm renaming yours as your Achilles' Contradiction; coming up with fantastic names for things which you are then unable to use, à la Gumshoe Paladin.

One day I shall turn to full parody I'm particularly happier with Mysteria McCool.

I think introducing the weird and uncanny piece by piece would be far more compelling. Especially if you go back to the trope. A lot of readers might pick it up because they like that trope, so when it starts to get a bit dark, they'll be really engaged because of the tension between their expectations and what is going on. It's like playing with the haunted house trope, which is my favourite starting point for any book I'm reading. I'm presold because I love that trope, so when it's messed with I'm even more hooked. House of Leaves did this to me, and Toby has mentioned (and recommended) The House Next Door which is another story that plays with the haunted house trope. Also, Robert Marasco's Burnt Offerings; which I enjoyed even though I think the prose is horrendous.

This might be particularly fine advice and indeed, why I was considering a delay. Its only really a good twist if the readers are beginning to anticipate the question themselves. However, it adds even more time before we get to what the book is all about.

Maybe the answer is to start with the character arriving at the school. Or make that the second chapter. Get to the point quickly. Hrm.

I tend to leave those kind of worries aside till I get to them - are you a hybrid writer or pure planner? I'd suggest her introduction would work itself out as you write.

I'm not quite sure tbh. I can't write without knowing what I'm going to write but I can't plan that far ahead. In any case, I want to make sure the boat's watertight before I get in it, and I think getting to Mysteria's introduction and finding I'd basically written in a Deus Ex Machina that I'd have to tiptoe around for the whole story would be the mother of all leaks.

And you tell me to make everything noir!

As long as the headmage of AA isn't actually O'Hick's real father.

Good idea! But I think I'll go with mother instead

I think it's too much of a coincidence that she happened to meet him on the road, and forward planning is usually the prerogative of evil, not the accidental fatedness that comes with being the chosen one. So, definitely not someone to trust.

The idea is Hoodson was busy collecting talented youth and found O'Hick on the last leg, so he's got all these others with him. But I do love a good spot of Xanatos Chess, so you might be onto something.

However, if they're that suspicious of him, he's not gonna do well as a spy. And I don't want to get into super competent evil and ragtag good that makes it by the grace of the gods either...

 

[Phyrebrat]

Cos no one does noir like Peat does noir

pH

 

[The Big Peat]

That's probably a good thing for Noir tbh.

 

[Ihe]

That may not be the direction you're going, but it could be an interesting take on the 'chosen one' trope, and could be funny to discover the 'oh so special chosen one' is actually just a normal dude!

I like this idea. When he saves that person from the river, have the spy secretly help him with magic, while staying out of sight, so she makes sure the talent-seeker sees him. The talent-seeker then believes the kid's got magic potential, when in truth he's got none (although he doesn't find out about the magical help until later on--twist!). And so the plights of a magic-less child in a magic school start. How to hide his powerlessness could be a focus of the story (although there might be a manga loosely based on this premise, iirc), maybe it could end up being a strength when everyone with magical sensibilities is attacked by a magic-consuming mist monster or something, and he's the only one left standing--maybe that's the reason the spy needed a muggle in the school, able to move around while everyone is weakened/paralysed. This thing writes itself, you see.

 

[Cathbad]

I mean, really, Hogwarts' position as sole educational provider should have given it a ton of power. Those teachers are making and breaking careers. Not to mention they're deciding what spin to give to pretty much all the wizarding history these kids are getting. Its nut.

Well, the Headmaster did seem to wield political power...