Inish Carraig 2

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Many thanks, @hej, much appreciated :)

I should probably have popped at the start of the crit that IC is written in the Northern Irish vernacular which plays with both the order I phrase things and the punctuation. We talk very very fast so splices and whatnot are used to capture that, as opposed to eg a more grammatical joining word or semi colon. We also have unusual word linkages and syntax.

It makes it hard to read if you like strong grammar! :)
 
Can't wait until I have finished Inish Carraig to read all this. Right now, I fear the spoiler for it is a malicious beast.
 
So an exploding roundabout with an alien chase underway might help give that desperate feel - if not quite the gritty? :D
If you want immediacy, why are you doing it in a roundabout way...?

(Sorry, but I couldn't resist. :oops:)
 
If you're blowing up roundabouts, can I recommend Coleraine. No specific one, just Coleraine. All those roundabouts were the bane of my driving test.
 
Many thanks, @hej, much appreciated :)

I should probably have popped at the start of the crit that IC is written in the Northern Irish vernacular which plays with both the order I phrase things and the punctuation. We talk very very fast so splices and whatnot are used to capture that, as opposed to eg a more grammatical joining word or semi colon. We also have unusual word linkages and syntax.

It makes it hard to read if you like strong grammar! :)

My pleasure.

Yeah, a heads up on the writing style would have helped -- but only a bit. I am familiar with various Englishes, and they catch me off guard. For example, I remember reading the Hindu (Indian newspaper), and finding its folksy phrasing to be, uh, odd. It was easy to follow, and mildly unsettling at the same time.

Also, I should add that I have a hard time telling if the rendering of the dialect is correct -- or faulty. I lack the proper basis for judgment, you see.
 
When I moved to N. Ireland, I remember telling myself that although I had moved to a new country at least they spoke English. Overheard this that first day at school:

Hey ya boy ye, sorry em late - ha tae gi me da a han' gettin' tra'or out the f**in' schuch.

If anything, IC tones it down in places.
 
Jo,
Were you aware that Zebedee was (is?) free software for making encrypted tunnels? It antedates OpenSSH.
I'm going out on a limb, and guessing that your name is not drawn from the program. :)
--hej
 
All those roundabouts were the bane of my driving test.

Your comment gave me a chuckle.

Though my driving test was in a city with circles (a bit different than roundabouts -- which were(are?) called rotaries, at least in Massachusetts), I did not have to navigate them.
 
If you want immediacy, why are you doing it in a roundabout way...?

(Sorry, but I couldn't resist. :oops:)

Try. Really hard :D ;)

If you're blowing up roundabouts, can I recommend Coleraine. No specific one, just Coleraine. All those roundabouts were the bane of my driving test.

Oh, the Coleraine roundabouts. And the pink roads! You may have a point.....

My pleasure.



Also, I should add that I have a hard time telling if the rendering of the dialect is correct -- or faulty. I lack the proper basis for judgment, you see.

Most do ;) I look for

In those who know the NI accent that they feel authentic:

Henry has a North Down voice. Very posh. Quite cultured. Says crash like crèche (almost certainly boarding school educated in England and his parents have a large country estate)

John is pure Belfast as is Neeta (with perhaps a very slight hint of her family's Pakistani accent)

Sean and his family talk like they do in Coleraine. And no one not familiar with NI could ever know how that should sound!

So I'm hoping people like @SPoots , @Kerrybuchanan etc hear all that - and must write for them to do so!

Which means, for everyone else, I just hope they keep up with the context of any unusual words and syntax and trust me it's reasonably accurate within those confines.

I would not recommend ever trying this kind of thing in any accent you don't know well :)
 
When I moved to N. Ireland, I remember telling myself that although I had moved to a new country at least they spoke English. Overheard this that first day at school:

Hey ya boy ye, sorry em late - ha tae gi me da a han' gettin' tra'or out the f**in' schuch.

If anything, IC tones it down in places.
Ah, yes, that's the Coleraine accent I was referring to ;) :D
 
Jo,
Were you aware that Zebedee was (is?) free software for making encrypted tunnels? It antedates OpenSSH.
I'm going out on a limb, and guessing that your name is not drawn from the program. :)
--hej
(Apologises to the mods for repeat posts - replies popped up as I typed)

It's actually my own name. They must have nicked it ;) :D
 
I would not recommend ever trying this kind of thing in any accent you don't know well :)

I have great respect for varieties and dialects of English and a few other languages.

Thus, I have notes on
Latin
Yiddish
Foreign Languages (.fr, .de, .se, .fi, .ru, etc.)
and, no I did not make this up just for you,
Irish.

I don't expect to use much Irish, but I certainly will include words derived from Irish.
 
I have great respect for varieties and dialects of English and a few other languages.

Thus, I have notes on
Latin
Yiddish
Foreign Languages (.fr, .de, .se, .fi, .ru, etc.)
and, no I did not make this up just for you,
Irish.

I don't expect to use much Irish, but I certainly will include words derived from Irish.

Ha! I have no Irish whatsoever.... (Well, the odd word but nothing coherent)
 
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I am new to the joys of Irish sf, so I will add what I am able.

Was I overwhelmed by the information.

Yes; yet it lent to a sense of the confusion being experienced by the characters.

That said, I was hooked, interested. This exert hooked me, thus it would be worth my time learning to play catch up.

Here is what I could keep up with: your characters.

You did an amazing job developing your characters into people I could relate with and in whom I felt invested.

How did they come across?

John comes across as a youngster whose been through enough adult challenges that he feels insulted by the necessities of qualification through a series of pedantic exams. John is portrayed as being: a young man with great probity (as revealed through his dialogue, and through narrative); he comes across as being intrepid in the face of danger and challenge, as well as clever (able to foil an alien conspiracy—unless I misunderstood this??). There is also a mixed relation between him and Carter—ambiguous mixture of rivalry and respect?? John seems to look up to Carter, yet it is mentioned that he’s pissed Carter off a few times (which suggests he is independent and does what he thinks ought to be done, on the spot, apart from gaining Carter’s consent—Carter being his superior, in age and career status).

About Carter. I like Carter. He reminds me of Gregory House.

Carter comes off as imperturbable. He seems laconic, save conducting necessary investigatory narratives (of everything, even the obvious—habit, I would gander). Carter seems choleric, which will cause conflict between himself and John, to be certain. Carter seems to be a dynamo and a natural leader. He does not flinch, nor draw back—Carter acts. (Carter strikes me as a man of action, little talk).

I would like to learn more about who Stuart is, and the little brother mentioned, as well as Josey—which I take is their big sister?

Have they lost their mum?

In short, you’ve got a great story on your hands.

I noted some confusion with pronouns such as knowing what was being referred to as “it,” as well as some confusion with “him,” “his,” “where,” meaning that as a newbie, I need those filled in with such phrases as, “Larne,” or your wonderful phrase, “shoddy-golden glory,” as well as substituting names for “him” or “his”…but that is because I’m new to this—others may not feel the same.

Also, what is GC?

Who are the Zelo?

Do we find this out later on—are these to hook me in?

It works. I’m hooked.

Hoverdasher.
 
Yes; yet it lent to a sense of the confusion being experienced by the characters.

Excellent! That's exactly what I want :)


You did an amazing job developing your characters into people I could relate with and in whom I felt invested.

Good - this is what readers of the first book like, so it would be good if that happens early with this one. I think your character analysis are very close, so that's great.


I noted some confusion with pronouns such as knowing what was being referred to as “it,” as well as some confusion with “him,” “his,” “where,” meaning that as a newbie, I need those filled in with such phrases as, “Larne,” or your wonderful phrase, “shoddy-golden glory,” as well as substituting names for “him” or “his”…but that is because I’m new to this—others may not feel the same.

Noted, thank you - I can be lazy with my pronouns.

Also, what is GC?

Who are the Zelo?

Do we find this out later on—are these to hook me in?

I'm thinking of nicking @HareBrain's idea and using a glossary for this sort of thing. They're all in the first book and it would very much go against the feel of Inish if I stop to explain everything again. I think I'll make it quite fun a la Jodi Taylor, and light.

It works. I’m hooked.

Yay! Thank you :)
 
I preferred the first. I agree with HB that there was too much scene setting and intro stuff, but I thought the general idea of the scene was sound and the tone was great. You certainly captured the tone of the first Inish Carraig alright. The second does a better job of signalling new story, but was less fun to read.
 
I preferred the first. I agree with HB that there was too much scene setting and intro stuff, but I thought the general idea of the scene was sound and the tone was great. You certainly captured the tone of the first Inish Carraig alright. The second does a better job of signalling new story, but was less fun to read.
There's always one.... :D
 
There's always one.... :D

I don't know what you're talking about :whistle:

To develop this position -

This is a sequel. People reading it don't need a mahossive hook, they need to know you're going to deliver the voice and characters of the original as much as they need a story.

Martin makes a good point about Inish Carraig setting a tone right away. But desperate means a lot of things. Inish Carraig One had the desperation of a very precarious existence - impossible for Inish Carraig 2 unless you have something gone very wrong and John back on the run or something like that - and the desperation of a creeping dread that John was about to make a horrible irreparable mistake. I think that growing sense of wrongness is something you could ape here and, as Inish Carraig was never a bang-bang novel, I think that might be better. Plus it allows you to give more character, setting and voice. Which is what we got from Critique 1.

I mean, there's no reason Critique 2 couldn't work and I think the reasons you tried it were sound ones. But it felt more generic Sci-Fi than Inish Carraig. And I think that's as much structural as anything else.

But that's just me - YMMV.
 
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