Medieval events for fiction

sknox

sknox

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Plenty of fantasy is set in pseudo-MA, or even historical Middle Ages. Others are "inspired by" medieval matters, most famously the Game of Thrones. But how about using actual historical events? Here are five candidates that I think would make for a great setting over which one could layer elements of the fantastic.

The Black Death (not just the 1347 outbreak, but the later ones too)
The Children's Crusade
Assassination of Giuliano de' Medici
The Return of Martin Guerre (name of a book; true incident, about false identities)
The War of the Sicilian Vespers

By way of illustration, I'll cite Robert Howard's re-telling of the assassination of Zengi, "The Lion of Tiberias." It's more of an adventure story than true fantasy, but Howard's writing always makes a story *feel* fantastical.

How about you folks? What would you see as a great event for a fantasy spin?
 
How about the life of the Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II? Paraphrased from Wikipedia: Traditionally viewed as an ineffectual ruler whose mistakes led directly to the Thirty Years' War, a great and influential patron of art; and an intellectual devotee of occult arts and learning which helped seed what would be called the scientific revolution.

Lots of murky Prague, golems, magic, religion, fighting, defenestration.
 
Venusian Broon said:
How about the life of the Holy Roman Emperor Rudolf II? Paraphrased from Wikipedia: Traditionally viewed as an ineffectual ruler whose mistakes led directly to the Thirty Years' War, a great and influential patron of art; and an intellectual devotee of occult arts and learning which helped seed what would be called the scientific revolution.

Lots of murky Prague, golems, magic, religion, fighting, defenestration.
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Plus the Winter King. That one is already on the stove that I keep behind the back burners. <g> I know Eric Flint has already worked the 30YW, but he did a Harry Turtledove with it. I won't have any moderns, but I'll have magical forces at work that are responsible not only for starting the war but for keeping in going when it ought to have stopped. It's custom made for a single life story, as thirty years would take a lead character from young adulthood into the far end of middle age--old enough for cynicism to be followed by acceptance and some sort of hope. But any such tale is years away; other stories have reserved seating.
 
The Reconquista in the Iberian Peninsula.


Although it is usually seen as a North/South war, Christians against Muslims, it is much more complex than that. During the Reconquista we saw Christian Mercenaries fighting for the Muslims and Vice-versa; We saw Christian kings allied with the Muslims against other Christian kings, and vice-versa; We saw changes of factions; we saw civil wars and civil unrest; banditry and mercenairies changing factions. We saw outside influence (from the Christian North, France, England, Germany…), and Muslim from the North Africa (Almoravids, Almohads, Marinids). We saw sons fighting against their fathers or their mothers, brothers against brothers and sisters. Two Epics (“La chanson de Roland” and “El cantar de Mio Cid”). Tons and tons of characters.


In short: 7 centuries of high drama.
 
Fer sure, fer sure. There was switching of sides even in the Holy Land, especially in the 12th century, but nothing like what happened in Spain. In general the Iberian peninsula is shamefully neglected by writers of historical fiction, and it lends itself even more to historical fantasy. Enough with the Tudors, sez I! Bring on the Navarrese!
 
What about novel dealing with Madonna Oriente ?
 
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Sounds like you know the work of Carlo Ginzberg. I read his The Cheese and the Worms years ago. Pioneering work in microhistory and a fascinating look into heresy. I haven't read his book on witches, though.
 
sknox said:
Sounds like you know the work of Carlo Ginzberg. I read his The Cheese and the Worms years ago. Pioneering work in microhistory and a fascinating look into heresy. I haven't read his book on witches, though.
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I know the name, but not much about him.:unsure:
 
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I write (and read) to escape reality. I really don't want to write about reality - past or present events.
 
@BAYLOR, you might enjoy him. The Cheese and the Worms is a classic, not very long. Worth a library borrow, anyway, though it's likely to show up only in a university library. Or a good used book store. It's a detailed look into the mind of an Italian peasant who had extremely peculiar ideas about the world and the Christian religion. It showed, for me at least, how deeply weird were the beliefs of the common folk in the late Middle Ages, how jumbled were their perceptions. La Durie's book on the Cathar heretics is another good one along those lines.

Which segues to a response to @Cathbad. When you get down into the intimate lives of individuals, reality can get pretty interesting. I don't buy the truth is stranger than fiction line--if your fiction is not as strange as the truth, then you're not writing good speculative fiction--but reality, especially of the pre-industrial sort, can afford characters and circumstances that a modern fiction writer is unlikely even to think of.

That's why my fiction is a blend: alternate history with a strong dose of fantasy. I don't want to escape from reality, I want to enter into a second reality, whether mine or someone else's.
 
sknox said:
Plus the Winter King. That one is already on the stove that I keep behind the back burners. <g> I know Eric Flint has already worked the 30YW, but he did a Harry Turtledove with it. I won't have any moderns, but I'll have magical forces at work that are responsible not only for starting the war but for keeping in going when it ought to have stopped. It's custom made for a single life story, as thirty years would take a lead character from young adulthood into the far end of middle age--old enough for cynicism to be followed by acceptance and some sort of hope. But any such tale is years away; other stories have reserved seating.
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Bit more than a Turtledove! the 1632 etc stuff is not a traditional Alternate History setting, with a POD based on an event or Decision goes differently, its more Sci fi - a 21st Century Virginian mining town is thrown through time to 1632, and you have lots of epic stuff like Spanish Pike Tercio's marching against the machine guns and Sniper rifles of the "United States" :)

I am not a very good writer, so I didn't get very far in, but i did have the idea of a more fantastical take on the Welsh War of Independence against English Rule in the early 15th century. In my idea, our last Prince, Owain Glyndwr, the leader of the Revolt basically encounters Elven refugees from another reality, fleeing some sort of powerful enemy that was exterminating them, their Mages manage to open a portal to Wales in 1403 to escape and enter into an alliance with Glyndwr, so lots of fun to be had there!

There's another, same setting, but I never got further than designing the flags of the new nations, I was enjoying that too much! :) it wasn't fantastical as such, no magic or anything like that, but a major part of it is the legends of Prince Madog discovering the Americas are true in this take of the world, and his and his peoples descendents, in alliance with an indigenous tribe have forged a powerful United Kingdom, so the Welsh War of Independence is going to go very differently to reality in 1404, when the "Madogians" sent envoys back to the old country, to reestablish contact, and end up sending thousands of troops to back Glyndwr up - by that point, the Madogians & their allies, the people, their cultures etc have totally mixed, creating something new - I had visions of Warrior Braves in Armour, marching into battle, against the English Crown, as a mighty wooden Red Dragon gazes upon them from atop a Totem Pole, stuff like that.
 
Tulius Hostilius said:
The Reconquista in the Iberian Peninsula.


Although it is usually seen as a North/South war, Christians against Muslims, it is much more complex than that. During the Reconquista we saw Christian Mercenaries fighting for the Muslims and Vice-versa; We saw Christian kings allied with the Muslims against other Christian kings, and vice-versa; We saw changes of factions; we saw civil wars and civil unrest; banditry and mercenairies changing factions. We saw outside influence (from the Christian North, France, England, Germany…), and Muslim from the North Africa (Almoravids, Almohads, Marinids). We saw sons fighting against their fathers or their mothers, brothers against brothers and sisters. Two Epics (“La chanson de Roland” and “El cantar de Mio Cid”). Tons and tons of characters.


In short: 7 centuries of high drama.
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Guy Gavriel Kay's Lions of al-Rassan is set in a fantasy version of the Reconquista.
I'd like to see the story of the successful siege of Lisbon by the Crusader fleet that just happened to be passing at the right time.
 
sknox said:
Plenty of fantasy is set in pseudo-MA, or even historical Middle Ages. Others are "inspired by" medieval matters, most famously the Game of Thrones. But how about using actual historical events? Here are five candidates that I think would make for a great setting over which one could layer elements of the fantastic.

The Black Death (not just the 1347 outbreak, but the later ones too)
The Children's Crusade
Assassination of Giuliano de' Medici
The Return of Martin Guerre (name of a book; true incident, about false identities)
The War of the Sicilian Vespers

By way of illustration, I'll cite Robert Howard's re-telling of the assassination of Zengi, "The Lion of Tiberias." It's more of an adventure story than true fantasy, but Howard's writing always makes a story *feel* fantastical.

How about you folks? What would you see as a great event for a fantasy spin?
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In what way is Game of Thrones the most famous example of inspiration by medieval history?
 
@Tirellan Lisbon would make a good tale, especially for a long short story or a novelette. Especially if you add orcs.
@DelActivisto, it's Wars of the Roses, of course, and since the books are so immensely successful, I suppose it must now qualify as the most famous example. But there are plenty of others.

FWIW, I think Martin has done a very good job of using historical inspiration. He makes enough nods to real history for history geeks to nod their heads, but not so much that you actually need to know anything about English history. Even trickier, he did not go so far as to make the history geeks protest that he got this or that detail wrong. I was well into the first book before I sort of looked up and went "oh, York and Lancaster! Cool."
 
DelActivisto said:
In what way is Game of Thrones the most famous example of inspiration by medieval history?
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As sknox has pointed out The Wars of the Roses are the obvious example. There are others.

Arguably the most famous scene in ASOIF is The Red Wedding. This scene is influenced by a real event in Scottish history where the young Earl of Douglas was invited to a reconciliation feast by the guardians of the 10 year old King James. It did not end well for the Earl of Douglas.
 
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