Star Trek - Discovery - 1.06: Lethe

[Cathbad]

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First 10/22/17 (Su.) 8:30 PM CBSAA

 

[Cathbad]

A very good episode!

Learned more about Sarek, Michael, the Captain - and the Klingons!

I was half-expecting the Federation Ambassador to die in an "unexplained" shuttle accident! I like the ending the way it was done, better!

 

[sinister42]

The design aesthetic of this show continues to piss me off -how do you get from this to Pike? Not just the uniform - ok, the captain can decide the uniform, fine - but how you get from this 2017 aesthetic of holograms and gesture-based controls to the psychedelic '60s design language of TOS which is 10 years later in-canon...

Anyway my husband and I have just had like an hour long argument about that so whatever...

This is the first episode of Star Trek Discovery that REALLY felt like it connected to canon. The Sarek stuff...that was pure ****ing GOLD and really helped flesh out the conflict between Sarek and Spock. Holy sh*t.

Yeah. So basically, DESPITE MY CONTINUED OBJECTION TO THE DESIGN AESTHETIC OF THE SHOW, this is the first ep that made me think 'holy sh*t, this is Trek.'

 

[Cathbad]

Why doesn't the aesthetics bother me?

Because it make a whole lot more sense (to us today) than would watching TOS tech for the first time.

It's ben updated, to reveal a more true and logical version of the future, based on what we know now. To go back to TOS tech version, we would literally have to ignore what we know now, and accept that, in many areas, technology went BACKWARD, somehow!

That's why I remain utterly confused why there are so many complaints about the technology in Discovery - when we have already surpassed much of TOS tech, in real life!

 

[Dave]

After this episode, I can't see how Ash can be a Klingon spy. There is something we aren't being told about him, but it can't be that. They really are playing with our minds. The "I'm from Seattle" thing is making me think that they have deliberately planted the "Klingon spy" rumours, in the full knowledge that it would sweep the discussion boards.

I was half-expecting the Federation Ambassador to die in an "unexplained" shuttle accident! I like the ending the way it was done, better!

It was so obviously a possible trap that Gabriel must have thought so. So, did he very deliberately allow the Admiral to go, and is he personally conflicted at all about rescuing her? Very good writing.

...how do you get from this to Pike? Not just the uniform...

If Spock is in Starfleet, then he is already serving with Pike right now. Michael told Tilly that she should get a first officer post on a Constitution class ship like Enterprise. So, the difference in design is very stark, but Discovery is a new ship, built for the war. The Constitution class is an old design. A better comparison would be with Sulu's Excelsior or the Enterprise-A, built later but still not as advanced as Discovery. However, we have really fully covered this argument.

That's why I remain utterly confused why there are so many complaints about the technology in Discovery - when we have already surpassed much of TOS tech, in real life!

Any prequel/concurrent-quel would need to do this. They should just stay away from doing them. They didn't. I don't like that. I'll live with it. This is too good to complain about it anymore.

 

[Alexa]

Gabriel is personnaly conflicted about rescuing the Admiral. After all, she told him he will loose the ship at her return.

I finally know why the captain took Michael on Discovery. The same reason he offered a job to Ash in this episode. They are all broken inside, like him.

I really like the music and the presentation at the beginning of each episode.

 

[ralphkern]

My opinion, I don't think Lorca is conflicted. From the second the opportunity presented itself, he knew the likely outcome and wanted it. The admiral probably did too, but thought the chance was worth it. The admiral is lucky (or considering how nasty these Klingons are... unlucky) that Discovery didn't simply drop in and take out the ship carrying her citing a rescue mission would be impossible.

To me, this situation doesn't quite move Captain Lorca to being a full on antagonist, but his moral code is totally different to anything seen before in Star Trek (However I do vaguely remember there was an episode of DS9 where they have to get the Romulans on board as allies and either destroy the Romulan ambassador's ship who wanted neautrality, or allow it to be destroyed - not quite the same situation, but shows this kind of moral angst isn't totally new to ST)

Ash is too charasmatic to be a straight arrow. Part of me is hoping he is going to be an ambassador for the hopeful Star Trek we know already... and that might cost him in this darker time of that future history (like it did Captain Georgiou) but more likely its only going to be a matter of time before he's summoned to the Captain's office and gets tribbled.

Okay... I'll admit. Sometimes the dialogue is clumsy. The tech levels are inconsistent (although fortunetly I'm a casual watcher of Trek and, as such, probably less discerning of that). But this is the best series, and these are the best set of characters, especially Jason Isaacs / Lorca who is rocking it as the new Captain.

 

[Alexa]

You believe Lorca wanted to loose Discovery ?

 

[Vince W]

There was a lot to like about this episode, the rescue of Sarek, Burnham beguiled by Ash, and Lorcas sending the Admiral (willingly mind) to her capture by the Klingons.

But a few things didn't work for me. Vulcan logic extremists? Really, you're playing the racist terrorism card? Vulcan logic would dictate a peaceful solution, not a Spinal Tap drummer type suicides. Tilly is annoying me. Her puppy dog enthusiasm and hero worship of Burnham is boring. I'm still not sure about this magic Katra communication. Stamets is all golly gee (not effing impressed) over the idea of something that connects all life together. Where have I heard that before, hmmmm....?

Does anyone else find the Sirius Cybernetic Corp (share and enjoy) replicators irritating? Although I like the nod to STNG by using Bodum cups again.

 

[Cathbad]

But a few things didn't work for me. Vulcan logic extremists? Really, you're playing the racist terrorism card? Vulcan logic would dictate a peaceful solution, not a Spinal Tap drummer type suicides.

I don't know why this surprises you. We've already seen Vulcan extremists. There was the group that wants Vulcans to accept their emotions - even Spock's half-brother was an extremist!

 

[Vince W]

It's the fact that they're logic extremists. As we've been told time and time again, Vulcans see violence as illogical.

 

[Cathbad]

It's the fact that they're logic extremists. As we've been told time and time again, Vulcans see violence as illogical.

True. But there would be extremists on both ends, not just one, would there not?

And I am sure he saw himself not as committing an act of "violence", but a sacrifice, necessary to accomplish his goal.

Extremists are always good at rationalizing their actions.

 

[Vince W]

True. But there would be extremists on both ends, not just one, would there not?

And I am sure he saw himself not as committing an act of "violence", but a sacrifice, necessary to accomplish his goal.

Extremists are always good at rationalizing their actions.

I refute your logic on the grounds it doesn't match my logic.

 

[Cathbad]

I refute your logic on the grounds it doesn't match my logic.

Fair enough.

 

[ctg]

I still love Tilly. She is going to love to see the galaxy-class star sledges entering into the service in her lifetime. I don't think she will ever make the captain chair, but she might become a science advisor for some other captain. Although she is light years behind Michael Burnham or Lt Stamets.

They both are excellent Science Officers on their own rank, while Tilly still lacks that something. In her own right, she knows what to do, when given an order. Outside the box, she hasn't show ingenunity or ability to count in one plus one and come up with two and not 2.99... to infinate, until that number becomes 3.

To her there is no hacks, just actions by the book. What Michael did through the psychic connection is amazing, and if we believe that the psychic network can expand through space-and-time then we have to believe that the spore-drive is realistic. The science hasn't proven that the psychic network is real. It rather lives in the realms of pseudo-science, while the principle for it can be found from the quantum theory. Especially in the theory of quantum communication, where two particles (Alice and Bob) vibrate together as a unit.

In theory we can take those two particles at the ends of space and achieve FTL communication. So in that light, if Sarek somehow gave part of his soul to heal then his souls is tuned to Michael's. Maybe even tied to Spock's.

In the classical ST these sort of events are the norm. In the DS9 the captain Sisko could tune to much more, but none of them ever mentioned a psychic network, even though it is become very evident through this episode.

What I cannot believe is the crew, they are never volunteering on outgoing missions even though that should be a dream to lot of them. To go to rescue an ambassador from the heart of nebula should be a career making mission that many of them would like to be mentioned in their resumes.

Is there no ambition in the Star Fleet? The rescue mission was at least four man job as the new Chief was in real trouble on handling the shuttle in middle of that sensor blinding nebula. Why there was no co-pilot?

Lurka. I feel for the devil. Being in the bed with the Admirality is not a nice position. In fact, I would hate to be in his shoes. The fact that Klingons turned the diplomatic mission to a slaughter and kidnap was a lucky stroke and Lurka could not have had better luck.

Also for being a veteran of Klingon war, I believe Lurka is suffering from extreme PTSD's. Then again which war captain wouldn't sleep a sidearm under their pillow, if they patrolling near Klingon space. The Klingon have proven time and again to be masters of deception. So why not?

I think the dear Admiral went nuts instead of recognising a broken soldier.

I also approve the large use of holographic projectors, even having a small holodeck in the armoury, because in hundred years we are going to have those things. Even today the VR is becoming a big thing. What I don't approve is having a glowing control panel every meter or so at the corridors of USS Discovery. Why there are so many of them?

 

[Cli-Fi]

This was a character development episode. Spock's family is sooooo intricate and confusing. God help him if he ever decides to throw a family reunion. Does he invite time traveling and alternate spocks/family members too? Vulcan looked absolutely amazing. As did Sarek's ship.

Stamets seemed high on those spores. Did he use the spores to get to the nebula? It sure didn't look like warp drive propulsion.
I liked the conversations between the lower ranking officers and having such a complex captain is A+. They never know what he is going to do. I can definitely see a good tangent from Lorca's character to Kirk's alpha male ego.

I guess Saru technically has the most access to him out of the main characters, but even he was surprised that Lorca wanted to do something by the book, even after he spent the whole episode explaining why doesn't. Of course it was all a means to an end. I knew as soon as the Admiral threatened his command she was a goner. I didn't expect her to survive though.

I have no problems with the technology. on Enterprise they used tablets that looked like iPads. While in TOS they used tablets that looked like iMacs w/greyscale screens!!!! Discovery everything is holographic! NBD. Also I'm guessing most of these technologies are in experimental phases (holodeck/Spore Drive etc.) I would have to see another ship. Perhaps a season finale or season 2 Enterprise cameo, to really compare the differences in tech. Because if they try to make the Enterprise bridge look like TOS bridge than I wouldn't want to leave Discovery!

Oh and reddit says that the T-Shirts Tilly and Michael were wearing proves that the official acronym of Star Trek Discovery is DISCO!

 

[Alexa]

What I cannot believe is the crew, they are never volunteering on outgoing missions even though that should be a dream to lot of them. To go to rescue an ambassador from the heart of nebula should be a career making mission that many of them would like to be mentioned in their resumes.

Is there no ambition in the Star Fleet?

Discovery is a science spaceship, not one for rescue missions or space explorations.

 

[Bugg]

not a Spinal Tap drummer type suicides.

Made me laugh - although Spinal Tap's drummers didn't commit suicide. Vulcans dying in mysterious gardening accidents or from spontaneous combustion could be amusing, though

Quite enjoyed this episode. Lorca playing the admiral like a violin, then messing up, then calculating his possible way out of the situation was really good, as was Saru's reaction to his refusal to just charge in to the rescue. The nebula looked weird. Whilst I don't actively dislike them, there's something about Tilly and Stamets that just doesn't fit in with the rest of the show. They're almost as annoying as Neelix and Kes.

 

[ctg]

Discovery is a science spaceship, not one for rescue missions or space explorations.

I was talking about the crew.

 

[Alexa]

I was talking about the crew.

The skillsets required for scientists are different than those for explorers.