The psychology of an immortal

[Mirannan]

In this section because it's relevant to my work; move it if it's in the wrong place, by all means.

Just to be quite clear here; this is an immortal of the "lives until killed" variety rather than the "unkillable" one. Although such a person might heal rather well, so killing him/her may be difficult.

And I am also talking about someone who stays in vigorous health and looking maybe early 20s; no mentions of Tithonus, please. Actually, functually immortal characters are common in fiction, from Tolkein onwards.

How is the fact of immortality going to affect someone's psychology? I suppose there are two sub-cases, when they are about 20 or so in reality and much later, when the apparently 20-year-old is now several thousand years old.

Thoughts?

 

[Cathbad]

Yoiks!

This is why I never have gods as characters...

 

[Droflet]

That's a very good question. I think they'd be torn between believing they are God like and being constantly in fear of dying. Paranoia would have to be thrown into the mix along with arrogance. Immortality could also make for a rather boring existence. They have literally been there and done that. Even the most elegant of food would loose his appeal after a few thousand years as would most things. They would be bored but also not willing to die. I'll leave there for the moment and allow for wiser minds to comment.

 

[sknox]

I'm with Cathbad. I utterly fail to see the attraction of gods. They make no sense as characters, imo.

But let's just say immortals, so I don't charge off on Rant, my valiant steed. I have some knowledge about stages of life (social historian here), so I immediately go to that for these long-lived folk.

How long are they an infant? How long does childhood last? How about adolescence? Middle age? Senescence?

This all matters. How long does a family unit stay together. Just picture a thousand years of teen angst. What about school? How do you find teachers for Grade 834? What about retirement? Can my cranky dad live with us for the next millenium? I'll make up a room.

There are some fatal corollaries here. If we get rid of stuff like the above, then we get rid of much of what it is to be human. This means the author has to find new ways for us to connect. Few do. Mostly they *say* their immortals live for hundreds or thousands of years, then they have their character behave exactly the way humans do.

But now I'm headed toward Rantsville, so I must climb down.

Just one more thing, to quote Columbo. I wish more writers would consider the mirror case. What about a people who are extraordinarily short-lived? That seems to me to be the far more interesting case.

 

[BAYLOR]

In this section because it's relevant to my work; move it if it's in the wrong place, by all means.

Just to be quite clear here; this is an immortal of the "lives until killed" variety rather than the "unkillable" one. Although such a person might heal rather well, so killing him/her may be difficult.

And I am also talking about someone who stays in vigorous health and looking maybe early 20s; no mentions of Tithonus, please. Actually, functually immortal characters are common in fiction, from Tolkein onwards.

How is the fact of immortality going to affect someone's psychology? I suppose there are two sub-cases, when they are about 20 or so in reality and much later, when the apparently 20-year-old is now several thousand years old.

Thoughts?

That 20 who is thousand of years old would not same person that he or she started out to be .Such person would likely be stark raving mad from the corrosive psychological affects of unending physical existence.

 

[zmunkz]

I’m writing the same sort of characters in my current WiP. The most interesting things to me are how perceptions of love and purpose would change to someone who is so old. Imagine falling in love only to outlive your lover... then to do it again with the next... and again... what does love start to mean? And after so much time, seeing how strife and wars all just fade into history to be forgotten (except by you), a certain exhistentialism is bound to settle in, or else the opposite... a vigorous fanaticism to give purpose to it all. Lots of way to play with this.

Some things to ponder, which would have lots of consequences: Can they have children? Do they have other powers in addition to immortality? Are their memories significantly enhanced over ours to actually hold and sort their entire life, or would much get lost to age?

I'm with Cathbad. I utterly fail to see the attraction of gods. They make no sense as characters, imo.

Check out the Licanius Trilogy (particularly book 2) to see excellent treatment of massively long-lived characters and the sorts of compelling conflicts they might confront over such time intervals. I’m personally having great fun writing some of them and exploring the space.

 

[thaddeus6th]

Are they alone, or is there a large (or small) number of them? That would be critical, I think, to their psychological perspective.

They also might quite like gardening. Now, that may sound nuts, but trees can live to be centuries or even millennia old, and breeding new varieties of plants is an interesting line of work. If someone lived for a long time, they could create fantastic forests and gardens and even have an impact upon the physical environment.

When wolves were reintroduced to an American national park (I think, saw it a few months ago and can't recall all the details) that led to a decline in the deer, but that altered the plant life because less was being munched on. This ended up increasing the beaver population which, as you'd expect, built more dams and altered the course of rivers.

In short, if an immortal were mended to get into horticulture/agriculture they could end up literally shaping the environment around them in very significant ways.

 

[Harpo]

A few years ago I imagined all the legendary immortals of ancient times teaming up to run the world. Cut to the future and they succeeded.

 

[Overread]

A few thoughts, not many answers because a lot depends on your world and character and to list all the possibilities would take forever.

1) Are there others. Yes or no this is a critical point as is if your character is aware of the situation. Knowing you're the only one like you or that there might be others out there like you, or that you're part of a large group like yourself etc...

Each one of those lines of thinking will have impacts on their lifestyle and goals. If they are the only one there is they might be more isolated or might have a more "I'm god" attitude. Similarly if there are hidden others they might find a major life goal in seeking out others like themselves.

2) Mortality. If this character is to live for thousands of years we can assume that they likely have some form of accelerated or at least superior regenerating capacity. If you think of the Highlander series one reason they last long enough to make it into modern times is because they can regenerate. Granted this makes them much more reckless, but it gives a plausible reason as to how they've survived without being totally isolationist.

3) Memory. This is a complex one often glossed over when dealing with gods; thus leaving it ripe for development. Essentially if they are still mostly human then the brain will have a limited capacity for information storage and retreival. As such it would be an interesting avenue to consider how much of their past they can remember and how much it affects them through life. Are they fine perhaps only remembering in decent detail the last 100 years; or having to keep copious protected notebooks to help them recall long distant things; does the forgetting if they were even married or had loved ones plague them daily. Or are they more "animal" in that they live in the hear and now and the past isn't as much a worry.

4) Long term VS short term thinking. What kind of thinker and planner are they. Are they playing a long game where they enginner themselves into a position of power and control; do they pull strings from the background; or do they just not care for whatever it is that mortals do with their life.

5) Education. One big stumbling block for education is that we spend a long time just learning something before finally ending up getting old; forgetting it and dieing. So a person who lives forever could, in theory, learn not only a wide variety of skills (note memory retention comes into play here); but also learn them to a very high level. They also won't be as affected by periods of strife or starvation or collaps of civilization; they won't lose skills or knowledge by that means (whilst a society can easily lose a lot of technology and knowledge if a few key people die off and there is no accessible record or motivation to continue the teaching).

6) Change over time of the person. Very few character remain as they are forever, even Gods in anicent mythologies are seen to change over time (often as evolution of the mythology/religion and the society(ies) its attached too). So your character is likely to change as well through time, though they might not realise it.

7) How are things differen to today. If your setting things in "todays world" then do give this a thought. There's nothing worse than establishing someone super special and then having "but ultimately it changed nothing in history"; though you can get away with it if you are very creative at showing how they did change history, just in ways that already happened (ergo they are key figures from the past - though be careful as you can start to get a bit silly going that path very quickly).

8) Offspring. Can they have kids or not and if so do they share any thing special. This relates well into how they relate to humanity and the passing of generations. If they can have kids then they might fill their time founding a dynasty to last the ages. Further how do they continue their bloodline as the ages continue.

9) Mental attitude linked to age/body. Broadly (very broadly) speaking the human mind behaves differently at different ages. Young people are more geared toward exploration and seeking out mates; whilst an older person is more like to see the dangers in life and seek a safer more sedentary lifestyle. That is a very stupidly insanely broad generalisation.
However its important to consider this aspect; is your character locked in a 20-yearolds mindset. Even with the passing of ages do they still have that immature/prove yourself an adult/wonderlust/invincible attitude toward life. OR does their mental condition age more so and their biological appeared age isn't as much a factor.

As you can start to see by thinking of these core elements you start to put structure to how the person might become to be and how they might act. You can also see how one impacts the other.
Eg if their memory is imperfect then things like how the deal with living forever and having "done everything" isn't as much a problem as whilst they might have done everything they won't recall or have the skills so doing it again becomes viable.



Note the whole "done everything". It's my observation that there are broadly two extremes of person and for the purposes of this example I'll use music to illustrate it.
One group believes, without question, that every song, note and sound has been done. That everything is just a derivitve of what hs been done and often is just a repeat.

Then you've a group that goes out and does something different.

Ergo I think that society has both kinds; both those that use what is and those that make what is to come. As such your character might well hold a majority of one of those two viewpoints - endless wonder and discovery or acceptance that they've reached their peek.

 

[Ihe]

Are their memories significantly enhanced over ours to actually hold and sort their entire life, or would much get lost to age?

This is the first question that came to my mind. Does immortality also carry with it supernatural memory? As great as the brain's potential is, could it contain millenia's worth of data? Which leads to another question: is this immortality magic-based or based on super-biology somehow? This will shape the way the body reacts to immortality. Biologically speaking, the brain is a finite system, it will eventually "run out of room". Does this immortality also come with perfect health (body AND mind?). Because if it does, the psychology of it won't be very interesting. A perfectly healthy brain won't be affected by most of the more serious mind-altering affectations that could creep up as a result of immortality (those based on neurological failures), which would leave you mostly with philosophical considerations, not so much psychological (at least nothing serious like schizophrenia or dementia).

Back to the original question: attachment issues would surely show. Dealing with so much loss over time might desensitize the person against future loss too. I don't think it would make him/her over-reactive to it, or to anything in general. Constant exposure to anything almost always desensitizes, and this can be true of most experiences the immortal will live, so he might grow extremely passive. A sense of general hopelessness and nihilism as a life philosophy are likely.

On the other hand, the person could also display anti-social tendencies, as others' short lives would be considered insignificant as would the prevailing social norms, since all of these things have an expiration date in the immortal's eyes. This, coupled with extreme boredom, could give way to a very extreme personality and thrill-seeking behaviours, and could make the person impulsive, violent, and probably criminal (as in wipes ass with current law and social norms), and overly hedonistic. But I think in the long run, even this euphoria would pass, and teh person would settle into what I commented before, passive hopelessness. Self-destructive, suicidal behaviours could be the norm if the person gets tired of living a purposeless life.

Long periods of time put all we value into perspective, and our earthly treasures can dilute in a perceived eternity, so the person's relation with his/her prized possessions would be interesting to read.

Just a few thoughts

 

[tinkerdan]

On the subject of the immortal among us.

They probably had a beginning; however they might not know the exact details[see the above arguments]and they likely wasted a lot of their time back then when they thought that they should eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow they will die.

It won't take long for them to realize they can't remember everything; although they seem to recall all of their mistakes.

Especially the times they spent wallowing in poverty, because--oh poor me and my struggle, these that have such short life do not know the trial and tribulation of building fortunes that crumble around them and leave them destitute yet still alive, even if only by a thread sometimes.

Once the realization of their longevity hits they will begin to mature; though they may also begin to think of themselves as an extension of Gaia within the notion that men come and go but the Earth abides.

They will likely shun religion; not so much that they lack belief in higher powers, as that most religions tend to have negative attitudes toward their inability to age and that increase their likelihood of being terminated prematurely.

They will, for a time, become cautious because of the mortality; until they have some grasp on their ability to regenerate.

Eventually when they realize some limitations such as the memory limits[little hazy on just where that limit is--however willing to admit there are limits] they will become a fan of historians-libraries-museums-universities-hospitals-research and development of all kinds and likely, after diversifying their portfolio of assets, they will become a major sponsor and fund provider of all of the same. They will have to become adept at the art of forgery and con as they'll periodically need to update their identity and somehow maintain the level of influence and trust they have within those institutions.

They eventually, after so much time, treat normals as we treat pets in some respects. They can surround themselves with as many as they can stand in the sense that they'll often grow close to--fond of-- those people who will come into and drop out of their life as quickly as our pets might often do. This may lead to periods of isolation to temper the emotional impact these will have when they do pass.

They'll be heavily tied to technological advancement, in respect to increasing their storage of knowledge; and will be highly adept at searching their database to bring up the specifics of things that they'd rather not try to overcrowd their memory with. They'll likely be a major player in the creation of an the internet and any other devices that help them retrieve the knowledge they've spent so much time assisting others to catalog and store.

They'll give the appearance of being a philanthropist while being mostly self-centered with every action specifically designed to assist them in overcoming the shortcomings that come with the package[their humanity]. They likely will be a supporter of the green movement; again out of a self-centered notion that they could one day be the sole survivor of some distant Apocalypse.

Eventually they'll spearhead any development in longevity for the rest of humanity while trying to find a way to advance their own development to try to overcome the limitations that flesh and blood provide.

Knowledge shall be their coin.

(Running short of time, but there probably is more yet to explore.)

 

[PatrickAzimuth]

The human mind is already so obsolete for the quantity of information we are throwing at it even in the current average human lifespan. Consider that not at all long ago, we would live for roughly 45 years, in a tribe with 30 or so people in it, and few ever traveled beyond their own village. Now, if you life in a city, think about how many new people you run across each day. How many new pieces of information you are called upon to process. This is certainly a big factor contributing to the massive cognitive dissonance many now experience.

Personally I don't believe that the average person would be able to stand much beyond their 200th year, if that. Unless they are genuinely superhuman, they would certainly be insane by the time they turned 1000.

 

[Parson]

An interesting take on this is The Man of Legends by Kenneth Johnson. It's a complete redo of the wandering Jew myth. Anyone interested in this subject might be interested in this book.

 

[PatrickAzimuth]

An interesting take on this is The Man of Legends by Kenneth Johnson. It's a complete redo of the wandering Jew myth. Anyone interested in this subject might be interested in this book.

Also check out Iain M. Banks' Hydrogen Sonata. It's well worth a read in any case, so if you don't want light spoilers don't read the next bit

** spoilers **

There's a character named QiRia who is thousands of years old. Mainly he spends his time doing very obscure/eccentric things and has ceased caring about galactic politics altogether. He's fun because the MC is so darned earnest, she's just gonna solve the big problem, and she has a hard time wrapping her head around the fact that he just doesn't give a damn, for real.

 

[Tim Murray]

I have a character that goes from mortal to immortal. That makes the physc. of the character interesting. Fortunately, his wife and some friends are along for the ride. It is just the beginning of his assimilation into immortality, so his "mortal" sensibilities are still strong. Who knows what the future will hold???