Editors for the Low Income

[Lafayette]

I need an assessment and a developmental editor.

I went to a web site that offered both and after some reading they look legit and still do. Gave them the information they required.

One reply I received stated that as a developmental editor and my large word count (194,000) she would charge me over $12,000. As an assessment editor she would charge me 0.021 cent per word. My calculator tells me that would come to $4,074.

I'm on a very limited income and I can't afford that.

Is there such a thing as a legitimate editorial service for the low income?

Currently my goal is to go to the e-book route, but this doesn't mean I want to put out a crappy novel to massage my ego.

 

[Abernovo]

We have editors on this site, and good ones. Teresa Edgerton, The Dusty Zebra, and Harebrain have all proved their worth. But, they do require paying, for obvious reasons.

Have you had your work beta read? If not, having a few other writers and readers go over it might iron out several of the more immediate problems, and give you areas to work on. All that costs is reciprocity. In the time spent doing all that, you can talk to editors on this site, and save up enough money to pay for someone's service.

Good luck.

 

[Jo Zebedee]

Also @Boneman .

None of the editors I've used charged even close to what you've been quoted.

You can also ask an editor to look at eg your opening segment and get feedback.

 

[Lafayette]

I can't find any beta readers. All my friends and acquaintances are either too busy or have zero interests in fantasy. How do I find beta readers?

 

[Brian G Turner]

I'd never recommend you pay to have a full manuscript edited by an editor you didn't know - instead, have them edit a sample chapter or the first couple of chapters.

My experience has been that every editor is different, so it's important to find one who clicks with you. Otherwise you'll end up paying for someone's services you don't agree with.

As to those prices - they appear very, very steep.

 

[Joe Loomis]

Also @Boneman .

None of the editors I've used charged even close to what you've been quoted.

You can also ask an editor to look at eg your opening segment and get feedback.

I'd never recommend you pay to have a full manuscript edited by an editor you didn't know - instead, have them edit a sample chapter or the first couple of chapters.

My experience has been that every editor is different, so it's important to find one who clicks with you. Otherwise you'll end up paying for someone's services you don't agree with.

As to those prices - they appear very, very steep.

Ok I'm glad you guys said that because I was blown away by that price. I am new to this whole thing, but 20k seems like a lot of money.

Thinking on the whole editor page how long do editors usualy spend on a manuscript? I asking like 8 hours a day for 5 days (40 hour week full time).

 

[Lafayette]

I'd never recommend you pay to have a full manuscript edited by an editor you didn't know - instead, have them edit a sample chapter or the first couple of chapters.

My experience has been that every editor is different, so it's important to find one who clicks with you. Otherwise you'll end up paying for someone's services you don't agree with.

As to those prices - they appear very, very steep.

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of that. Now that I think about it it makes a lot of sense. Again, I'm glad that I'm a member of this forum.

 

[Montero]

At what stage are you in your manuscript? There is a lot you can do with it yourself before you hire an editor. So, you've finished it. Have you:

1. Spell checked it?
2. Checked it for correctly spelled but mis-used words - as in discreet and discrete and all like words. (Too early in the morning to remember where, but I think there are lists online and on SFF with those sorts of words to check.)
3. Read all the way through it yourself, start to finish.
4. Put it to one side for maybe three months (doing some other project in the meantime) and then read it again.
5. Spell checked it again because the editing may have introduced errors.
6. Read it aloud to yourself. (It's amazing how many clunky or confusing sentences that will pick up.)
7. Spell checked it again.

The above list is how I work myself. I wouldn't consider asking anyone else (beta reader or editor) to read a whole manuscript of mine until I had done all of the above. I might ask a beta reader to read a few page sample at a slightly lower standard to see if a story style was working, or a difficult scene was actually readable. Other people probably have other methods.

You can also learn a lot from critiquing other people's work over in the critique area.

Also, yes, I have found it very hard to get beta readers - and when you do, you treat them very, very, nicely.

 

[Venusian Broon]

I can't find any beta readers. All my friends and acquaintances are either too busy or have zero interests in fantasy. How do I find beta readers?

You'll need to find people with an similar interest first (there may be people here on this website perhaps! ) Perhaps start with very small samples in critiquing and see which critiques come back that you like - also ones that are hard but fair (a sycophant is nice but may not help your development ) - I also think you should build some relationships in the forums with like-minded fantasy writers and others i.e. just take part in discussions involved in writing and related topics. This will help build trust and get everyone to know you and you to see what others write.

I also think there are a lot of benefits of critiquing yourself, so contributing with your own critiques not only helps others. As...

...there may be people willing to critique and beta read with no strings, but generally speaking it's a barter economy here. If you are asking someone to beta read a 200k novel, then you should (nay, must!) be equally willing to reciprocate and beta read their 200k manuscript. That is the cost - in time rather than dollars from your bank account .

I've seen quite a few 'calls for Betas' on this forum and I'm sure there are a large number of private groups working behind the scene with manuscripts.

It won't happen overnight if you haven't put the legwork in first and it's a bit daunting at first, I know. But remember there are a fair number of people here on this website in exactly the same position as you, who are looking for development and can't afford any editors. You are not alone. Just remember to be fair and contribute, and treat people how you would want to be treated.

 

[Biskit]

There are so many things suggested above that you can do to clean up the MS, but for me the single most effective is the read-aloud. I gets ****** tedious, especially the second or third pass, but it catches so many things. It really forces you to read what is written and suppresses the auto-correct in your head, and if you stumble over a sentence then there is probably something wrong with it. I've just done it for a book I'm hoping to publish in March - now it goes for beta-reading etc, and then it will get the read-aloud again, and there will probably be at least one more before it goes out.

I think it took me about a week and a half to do, and that was for a 110k manuscript. Later passes will probably be faster because there is less to fix, but even so I would reckon on a week.

I have a variant on the read-aloud I call the 'fast mutter' which is quicker, and handy for a rough clean-up or a final sanity-check on an ebook after conversion, but in general speed is not your friend in this process. An important part of the read aloud is slowing you down, making you see what's really there in that passage you wrote at three in the morning hyped on caffeine and creative enthusiasm.

 

[HareBrain]

Teresa Edgerton, The Dusty Zebra, and Harebrain have all proved their worth.

Thanks for recommending me, Aber, but I should point out I don't do any paid editing, just beta-reading for friends. (I can attest to the quality of the other two, however.)

 

[Montero]

Further thought - if you are trading books for beta reading, you yourself need to be able to do it to a reasonable standard - so, spot typos, clunky sentences, lack of continuity (blue eyes became brown...), bits that bored you (and be able to give at least some comment as to why). You need to be able to comment on someone's manuscript clearly - but also accept that some things are style. When I am beta reading I sometimes make suggestions as to alternative wording, but solely to explain what I don't like about the current wording.

 

[janeoreilly]

Are you completely set on self-publishing? If so, I wouldn't recommend spending anything like this sort of money (TBH, the prices you've quoted sound to me like a con). There are also plenty of other routes into publishing which won't cost you anything. With regards to looking for beta readers, I would recommend joining some online writing forums or something like SFWA, all of which will have unpubbed members looking to critique work, or looking at the writing forums here (as has been suggested). You may not find someone willing to read 200K but even a few comments on your first three chapters can be enough to help you fix a lot of things.

 

[The Judge]

All good advice for you, Lafayette, but the one I'd push for the moment is your returning to Critiques and posting more of your work there, particularly the first 1000 words of Chapter 1 which I think we've seen before, but which you've undoubtedly worked on over the last year. See what reaction you're getting for that. If there are mostly favourable remarks and any comments are on issues such as minor spelling or punctuation errors, then all well and good, and the next stage is to use the Writing Group here on Chrons and put up a longer excerpt, say of 2500 words, and see what feedback you get for the longer piece. If it's still largely favourable, then you may find some beta-readers just from those members who have read and enjoyed the story so far and want to see what happens.

If, however, you're getting advice that suggests there is still a good bit of work to be done on Chapter 1, then I'd recommend that you concentrate on working on the issues brought up, ie not simply in revising that section itself but using the recommendations given to improve the whole novel. Once you've done that, come back to Critiques again, perhaps with the revised Chapter 1, perhaps with another piece you're worried about, and see if it's working any better. Keep doing that until such time as you're getting feedback that suggests you've cracked it.

If you think you're getting contradictory advice from knowledgeable members here and you're not sure which way to turn, then it's perhaps time to think of getting a few chapters looked at by a professional to see if that takes matters forward. I've had help myself from both Teresa and Boneman which has been invaluable, and I know TDZ to be a story and word wizard, so I'd join in with recommending them, too.

 

[tinkerdan]

The prices you list seem about right--if you are searching for editing on line.
My searches for other editing suggest that these prices might apply in professional editing across the board if you are an author seeking editing.
I'm fairly certain that publishers get a much better rate.

Acquiring editing services is a double edge sword and it is best approached as @Brian G Turner suggests--search for an editor who will edit a portion for free so you can see if they are a good fit and see if they do well. However remember that you are the one judging how well they do and the reason you are not doing this yourself is that you know you don't have everything it takes to do this yourself. That's the double edged sword.

That much said, just having grammar and spelling and punctuation checked can be quite costly and possibly in the thousands for such a bulky manuscript. That was the problem with mine and one reason I went with Xlibris POD; they have their own editors. And once again the problem with this is that you still don't know what you are getting. They did a fine job of finding a multitude of problems and helping fix them; however there were far too many things that both they and I missed that I'm still sorting through.

The cheapest editing is, do it yourself, which is insane to even consider. But this is one reason that the eBook self publishing industry is where it is at presently.

My advice is search out students from nearby universities and seek out beta readers for help and suggestions. They still do not replace a professional edit that includes Substantive, content, continuity and structure, which is what gets really expensive and even with a POD publisher you can get a massive bill for those services and not be sure what you will get until you get it.

One thing to remember is that if you have in depth editing that will require a rewrite that then needs editing again--Who will do that and how much will it cost--Even the POD publishers have a limit on how many passes they will allow in editing before you have to pay once more.

It would be interesting to have some of the editors in this forum come up with a price list for services.

However it should be noted that often editing services have a caveat that they need to read a chunk of your work before they can truthfully quote your work; because some writers will need much more editing than others and this is why there is an emphasis on trying to get as much of the grammar, spelling and punctuation correct before sending it out for edits.

One last thought: I know of no editor who can guarantee that your novel will sell well after they edit it. In essence the only person guaranteed to make good money from your novel is the editor. So choose wisely.

Here is an interesting chart I ran across-took a while to re-find it.
Editorial Rates – Editorial Freelancers Association

First part gives a pace to price chart for services relevant to conversation.

 

[tinkerdan]

Here is a fair description of editing services along with prices::
Editing Services | Invisible Ink Editing
::That seem to coincide with what I have found to be the average prices.

 

[Joe Loomis]

The prices you list seem about right--if you are searching for editing on line.
My searches for other editing suggest that these prices might apply in professional editing across the board if you are an author seeking editing.
I'm fairly certain that publishers get a much better rate.

Acquiring editing services is a double edge sword and it is best approached as @Brian G Turner suggests--search for an editor who will edit a portion for free so you can see if they are a good fit and see if they do well. However remember that you are the one judging how well they do and the reason you are not doing this yourself is that you know you don't have everything it takes to do this yourself. That's the double edged sword.

That much said, just having grammar and spelling and punctuation checked can be quite costly and possibly in the thousands for such a bulky manuscript. That was the problem with mine and one reason I went with Xlibris POD; they have their own editors. And once again the problem with this is that you still don't know what you are getting. They did a fine job of finding a multitude of problems and helping fix them; however there were far too many things that both they and I missed that I'm still sorting through.

The cheapest editing is, do it yourself, which is insane to even consider. But this is one reason that the eBook self publishing industry is where it is at presently.

My advice is search out students from nearby universities and seek out beta readers for help and suggestions. They still do not replace a professional edit that includes Substantive, content, continuity and structure, which is what gets really expensive and even with a POD publisher you can get a massive bill for those services and not be sure what you will get until you get it.

One thing to remember is that if you have in depth editing that will require a rewrite that then needs editing again--Who will do that and how much will it cost--Even the POD publishers have a limit on how many passes they will allow in editing before you have to pay once more.

It would be interesting to have some of the editors in this forum come up with a price list for services.

However it should be noted that often editing services have a caveat that they need to read a chunk of your work before they can truthfully quote your work; because some writers will need much more editing than others and this is why there is an emphasis on trying to get as much of the grammar, spelling and punctuation correct before sending it out for edits.

One last thought: I know of no editor who can guarantee that your novel will sell well after they edit it. In essence the only person guaranteed to make good money from your novel is the editor. So choose wisely.

Here is an interesting chart I ran across-took a while to re-find it.
Editorial Rates – Editorial Freelancers Association

First part gives a pace to price chart for services relevant to conversation.

Here is a fair description of editing services along with prices::
Editing Services | Invisible Ink Editing
::That seem to coincide with what I have found to be the average prices.

I liked these posts but I feel that it is not enough. These two posts are golden unicorn eggs of magical goodness. ❤❤❤❤

 

[Abernovo]

Thanks for recommending me, Aber, but I should point out I don't do any paid editing, just beta-reading for friends. (I can attest to the quality of the other two, however.)

Oops! Sorry, HB. I was going to post a witty reply, but then remembered I'm often (usually) pretty witless, as evidenced earlier.

 

[sknox]

Here's another vote for going first to critique groups. You won't get them to read the whole manuscript, though, so they aren't going to help with problems like character development across the arc of the story, or consistency problems between an early and a late chapter. But the critique group can help you clear out a lot of underbrush.

There are lots of places to find beta readers, including forums like this one or over at Goodreads, but it's a bit like choosing an electrician from a list of names. You might get a good one or a lousy one, and since you're not an electrician it will be hard to judge the result. I've been at this for years and have yet to find a good beta reader. Finding a good editor is also difficult--actually, it's something of a crap shoot, as unpredictable as dating.

One final, more encouraging comment. Reading the ms aloud is absolutely a good idea, but my voice just won't hold out--esophagus issues. I found having it read by a robo-reader (there are several free ones) was the next best thing. In some ways--and here maybe others could chime in--a robo-reader is better because I could have the manuscript (printed) in front of me as I listened. All my attention was on the flow of the words and making comments on the page, without having also to do the reading. Anyway, it's an alternative.

 

[Biskit]

In some ways--and here maybe others could chime in--a robo-reader is better because I could have the manuscript (printed) in front of me as I listened. All my attention was on the flow of the words and making comments on the page, without having also to do the reading. Anyway, it's an alternative.

I've always ignored this as being 'too easy' and defeating the purpose, but I'm going to give it a try. Listening to the words must use a whole different set of bits of the brain - might as well put some wear-and-tear on some different neurones.